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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 01:38 pm
@revelette,
I'm not sure how anybody can imply "defenseless little kid" from age.

When I was a young (before my teen years), I fought frequently, and got my share of bloody noses. I fought, not because I was strong, but because I knew kids would leave me alone about my eyeglasses once I fought them.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 01:40 pm
@Thomas,
I prefer to go with the healthcare worker that treated Zimmerman who said there was no trauma. Everybody else is only "guessing" about the depth of injury.

Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 01:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
prefer to go with the healthcare worker that treated Zimmerman who said there was no trauma. Everybody else is only "guessing" about the depth of injury.

What healthcare worker are you talking about, and what tests has he or she run about any internal injuries to Zimmerman's head?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 01:57 pm
@Thomas,
Does it matter what tests were run about internal injuries? Who says so? You?

The healthcare worker determined from what she observed and by talking to Zimmerman that no tests were needed.

You can second guess all you want, but it's meaningless.
revelette
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 01:59 pm
@Thomas,
Just speaking as a lay person, which is all I am obviously, you would think if someone's head was being banged repeatedly on concrete there would be bigger abrasions, enough for stitches or something. It is possible for anyone to get a concussion for any accident involving the head. I can't remember exactly, but I believe she said, she watched a video where Zimmerman was walking into the police station and she didn't observe any obvious signs of someone being concussed. (my words)

His story just don't pass the smell test, but it might pass legally I suppose. It seems to me the easiest defense in the legal system is the self defense justification.


firefly
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:04 pm
@Thomas,
Zimmerman saw a physician's asst. in his own doctor's office the next day. She testified his injuries were minor based on her examination of him. He had no complaints or bruises to indicate internal injuries. He had no complaints or symptoms indicative of concussion or brain injury. He saw her because he wanted medical clearance to return to work--and he got it. He sought no other treatment for any of his injuries.
Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Does it matter what tests were run about internal injuries?

Yes it does, because you allege that Zimmerman had not suffered any internal concussions during the fight, and that the healthcare worker had determined this on some basis that's better than just guessing. So I'm asking you: what is this basis?

cicerone imposter wrote:
Who says so? You?

Common sense.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:10 pm
@Thomas,
It doesn't matter what "I say" about any injuries. It's up to the attorneys participating in the trial to bring up those issues.


"Common sense?" Your common sense doesn't seem to match those of the healthcare worker who treated Zimmerman. Zimmerman is the one who refused further treatments.
firefly
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It's up to the attorneys participating in the trial to bring up those issues.

You're right. And they didn't bring up those issues.

And the defense has rested.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:14 pm
An interesting twist: the attorneys are in sidebar again, this time for the prosecution asking the MMA trainer if he is now marketing Zimmerman's training. (updates on HLN)

Say What!? Gym Where George Zimmerman Trained For MMA Fighting Is Offering "Zimmerman Classes" (PHOTOS)


0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:16 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:
Just speaking as a lay person, which is all I am obviously, you would think if someone's head was being banged repeatedly on concrete there would be bigger abrasions, enough for stitches or something.

No you wouldn't. Concrete is a flat surface, not a sharp, edgy surface. So why would Zimmerman suffer any abrasions if his story is true, if Martin pushed him straight down onto the pavement, and if Zimmerman's head did not rub sideways across it?
engineer
 
  2  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:23 pm
@Thomas,
From the descriptions, it sounds like Martin hit Zimmerman in the face, he fell down and hit his head on the ground, bloodying his nose and getting a bump on the back of his head. If he were being pummelled, Martin's fists would have shown it. Hitting someone in the face bare handed is a good way to break your fingers. I can't imagine there would be no sign if he was repeatedly striking Zimmerman.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:31 pm
@engineer,
Yup.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:33 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
This is the problem with the judge denying Martins txt's be allowed into evidence. If those text's show that Martin liked to fight and did it often, it blows the helpless Martin theory out of the water. It would show that Martin had no qualms about starting fights.

Is it OK to pull in stuff about Zimmerman that doesn't directly relate to the conflict that night? His anger management issues, for example?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:36 pm
@engineer,
How do you account for the witness who says Martin was on top and moving in an up and down motion?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:37 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
can have internal concussions without any abrasions at all.

Can have... but it's unlikely if the concussions are being caused by a hard surface. This is a typical defense attorney argument, where they bring up what "can happen" rather than what happens 99.9% of the time.

Did the prosecution redirect at that point?

DrewDad
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:39 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

No you wouldn't. Concrete is a flat surface, not a sharp, edgy surface. So why would Zimmerman suffer any abrasions if his story is true, if Martin pushed him straight down onto the pavement, and if Zimmerman's head did not rub sideways across it?

Doesn't take a sharp object to cause a cut.

Zimmerman is basically bald, right? I have that same look... and it doesn't take much to make my head bleed.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:41 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
She testified his injuries were minor based on her examination of him.

Based on her examination? She did not examine Zimmerman for internal injuries. She had no reason to. Remember, she was not securing evidence for the trial, she was checking for any lasting injuries that needed treatment. But she confirmed that the external injuries she saw did not rule out internal injuries to the brain.

Quote:
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's the difference between a hematoma, which is above the skull between the skin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. Hematoma outside the skull --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- resolve itself sort of between the skull and the skin.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then, subdural and epidural is you actually have gone below the skull and you just in that dura which is what cushions (ph) the brain.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you can have -- injuries like this could certainly cause an epidural or subdural hematoma, correct?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not necessarily the lacerations, themselves, but if there was head trauma, completely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry. So, if I just went up to this head and cut it with a razor blade or a scalpel, that would not, you would imagine, cross a subdural or epidural hematoma?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if I took that same skull, unless, I smashed it on concrete, sufficiently enough to cause that injury. So, smash might be (INAUDIBLE), but getting that injury by having your head hit against cement, could that cause a subdural epidural hematoma?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That could, depending on how hard the impact was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And that would, in fact, be an injury below the skull in the area where the brain is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which is one of the reasons why you do what you do in your evaluation to make sure that he can still focus his eyes and still speak because your concern at that point with any head trauma that there may be some brain injury.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And your charge then at that point is to rule out that possibility, though, you would agree that possibility exists whenever you have an injury like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It can, yes.

(Source: CNN's transcript of Folgate's cross examination) The "unidentified male" is Mark O'Mara, a defender of Zimmerman's, the "unidentified female" is pysician-assistant Folgate.

So, contrary to what y'all are saying, Folgate did not say that Zimmerman suffered no internal injuries to the head.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:44 pm
@Thomas,
It doesn't matter what you think. Zimmerman refused further treatment.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 02:44 pm
@engineer,
Nods.
0 Replies
 
 

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