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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 03:50 am
@OmSigDAVID,
If there is no presumption of innocence there is no arguing. The cops, or the mob, just lock up, or string up, anybody they fancy and lawyers are not required.

So it's no surprise that lawyers are for the p of i.

Whether it is due to considerations of philosophy, a contract, a constitution, a statute, a body of rules or style or ensuring that lawyers are a well paid body of estimable men and women organised into a union led by the USSC with nationwide sub-branches I am not qualified to say although most people I know think the latter is the more likely explanation.

I had thought that the logic of the Goldwater position was that there should be no law.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 04:27 am
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3041045/posts

Quote:

As if more evidence were needed about the tragedy of black education, Rachel Jeantel, a witness for the prosecution in the George Zimmerman murder trial, put a face on it for the nation to see. Some of that evidence unfolded when Zimmerman’s defense attorney asked 19-year-old Jeantel to read a letter she allegedly had written to Trayvon Martin’s mother. She responded that she doesn’t read cursive, and that’s in addition to her poor grammar, syntax and communication skills.

Jeantel is a senior at Miami Norland Senior High School. How in the world did she manage to become a 12th-grader without being able to read cursive writing? That’s a skill one would expect from a fourth-grader. Jeantel is by no means an exception at her school. Here are a few achievement scores from her school: Thirty-nine percent of the students score basic for reading, and 38 percent score below basic. In math, 37 percent score basic, and 50 percent score below basic. Below basic is the score when a student is unable to demonstrate even partial mastery of knowledge and skills fundamental for proficient work at his grade level. Basic indicates only partial mastery.

Few Americans, particularly black Americans, have any idea of the true magnitude of the black education tragedy. The education establishment might claim that it’s not their fault. They’re not responsible for the devastation caused by female-headed families, drugs, violence and the culture of dependency. But they are totally responsible for committing gross educational fraud. It’s educators who graduated Jeantel from elementary and middle school and continued to pass her along in high school. It’s educators who will, in June 2014, confer upon her a high-school diploma......
farmerman
 
  2  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 04:43 am
@gungasnake,
Seeing the last day highlights and "talking head analyses", I don't see why the defense cant rest. Im anxious to hear the summations before it goes to the jury (Including final instructions from the judge)

Talking heads seem to feel that the jury will be surprised at these automatic Mandatory Maximum Sentences that each verdict would draw . 30 years for manslaughter makes the possibility for acquittal a bit higher,
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 04:50 am
@farmerman,
Is the 30 for manslaughter a normal thing in flori-duh or something they dreamed up for this particular case??
farmerman
 
  2  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 05:08 am
@gungasnake,
I understand that its one of those mandatory maxima that takes the judge and jury of sentencing. Im assuming its Fla statute that was established in the last few years. I think its cool for putting some control on these gun crimes. Itll satisfy my liberal bent as well as my conservative side.
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 06:13 am
@farmerman,
fm--why is Fox News making such a big play with the case.

It looks to me somebody with a desire to kill came across somebody who gave him an excuse, or what might pass as an excuse if the second somebody is black and takes dope and shouldn't be out skulking through the streets after dark.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 06:26 am
@farmerman,
Florida utilizes the Criminal Punishment Code (CPC) scoring system to determine the minimum allowable sentence for all felony crimes.
The crime of Manslaughter with a Weapon or Firearm is classified as a First Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 7 offense.

If convicted of Manslaughter, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 9¼ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:
- up to 30 years in prison.
- up to 30 years of probation.
- up to $10,000 in fines.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 06:28 am
@cicerone imposter,
Manslaughter is automatic in a murder charge in Florida.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 07:08 am
@DrewDad,
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. And I am not sure about the former." (Albert Einstein)
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 07:09 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
If there is no presumption of innocence there is no arguing.
Your assertion is un-justified;
e.g., at trial with a presumption of guilt,
defendant cud be held to prove himself innocent.





spendius wrote:
The cops, or the mob, just lock up, or string up,
anybody they fancy and lawyers are not required.

So it's no surprise that lawyers are for the p of i.
I supported that presumption long b4
I was admitted to practice law.






spendius wrote:
Whether it is due to considerations of philosophy, a contract,
a constitution, a statute, a body of rules or style or ensuring
that lawyers are a well paid body of estimable men and women
organised into a union led by the USSC with nationwide
sub-branches I am not qualified to say although most people
I know think the latter is the more likely explanation.
The opinions of aliens mean nothing to us.








spendius wrote:
I had thought that the logic of the Goldwater position
was that there should be no law.
U thawt rong.
That was not his position.
If u care, then read his book: The Conscience of a Conservative.
He supports the Original Constitution, as amended per its Article 5.





David
Thomas
 
  3  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 07:17 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
I voted for Barry Goldwater and I represent his philosophy
of the Orthodox Americanism of the Founders of the Republic.
As such, it comes naturally, inexorably to me to support
the presumption of innocence
. If I were so fortunate
as to successfully convince u to adopt my point of vu,
wud u then abandon the presumption of innocence??

No, I wouldn't. When it comes to people's due-process rights, libertarians and liberals are barely distinguishable. I see the Zimmerman case the same way today as I would have seen it 10 years ago, when I considered myself a libertarian.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 07:21 am
@Thomas,
Thomas, I hope you can meet BoGoWo on one of your Toronto visits. He is a self-described Libertarian Anarchist and a fine fellow to have discussions with.

He is a true community activist in the very best sense of the phrase.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 07:23 am
Well, it took long enough with some heated remarks from West, (who I personally find to be abrasive but anyway) The text, post and animation is out.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 07:25 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity.
And I am not sure about the former." (Albert Einstein)
Tom, do u dispute
that Orthodox American conservatives (like Barry Goldwater and like me)
support the presumption of innocence ?

Do u believe that citizens of my ideology
support fair practices n procedures in criminal or civil litigation ??

If not, will u indicate where we went rong ??





David
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 07:32 am
David says:

Quote:
Tom, do u dispute
that Orthodox American conservatives (like Barry Goldwater and like me)
support the presumption of innocence ?



You only support the presumption of innocence for Zimmerman. From the first you have supported the presumption of guilt for Trayvon. You're hugely biased in who you choose to presume innocent. So, no, you don't support presumption of innocence.
Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 07:39 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Quote:
The might still get Zimmerman for perjury, in a different trial. I think the prosecution has demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that he lied under oath. And perjury can get him a year or two in jail, too.

No, he never lied under oath. I don't think any of the statements to the police were sworn statements, and he certainly wasn't under oath during the Hannity interview.

Here's one statement Zimmerman made under oath. It's four pages of hard-to-read handwriting, so I didn't bother to check it for lies. It does go to show, though, that Zimmerman did give sworn testimony to the police. On the other hand, you're right that Zimmerman told his biggest lie, his feigned ignorance of stand-your-ground law, on Faux News when he was not under oath. I guess there's a reason he didn't make the statement on Judge Judy, where she might have sworn him in.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 09:19 am
This guy testifying now says if you don't win a physical fight in the first thirty seconds you have to change tactics. I guess if two boys in school yard get into a fight, the looser is justified in pulling out a gun and ending it before he gets anymore bruised up...

Quote:
10:40 a.m. ET: In this particular case, just going off the timeline of of the 911 call given the period of time. I have personally sat there and timed it myself where it is about 40 seconds of time. That's a very long time to be involved in any type of physical altercation," said Root.

10:37 a.m. ET: "We have a golden rule. If you have not successfully completed the fight, if you have not won the fight in 30 seconds change tactics, because the tactics you are using are not working," said Root.


source
Baldimo
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 09:21 am
@revelette,
I like how you guys tried to make a deal of Zimmermans "MMA" training. That was until his instructor told the jury that his athletic ability was about 0.5 on a scale of 1-10.

revelette
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 09:26 am
@Baldimo,
I only made a big deal because David kept talking about Trayvon Martin using MMA training, you know "ground and pound" when the only who took the training just happened to be Zimmerman. Guess he wanted to be able to pound and ground but knew he couldn't so he got a gun and kept it loaded.
Baldimo
 
  1  
Wed 10 Jul, 2013 09:35 am
@revelette,
I guess you missed that part of the testimony. The instructor said Zimmerman was there to loose weight, not learn to fight.
 

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