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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Fri 7 Feb, 2014 09:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
Richard Mantel, a state prosecutor, told Judge Debra Nelson the calls would show Mr Zimmerman had a record of "profiling" and had a "building level of frustration" about crime in his area.
In one call Mr Zimmerman made to police earlier in February 2012, he reported seeing a black man going through a neighbour's bins. "I know the resident. He's caucasian," he told the dispatcher.

That sounds like (presumably) un-sworn, un-qualified expert testimony
coming from the prosecutor.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  2  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 09:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
Richard Mantel, a state prosecutor, told Judge Debra Nelson the calls would show Mr Zimmerman had a record of "profiling" and had a "building level of frustration" about crime in his area.
In one call Mr Zimmerman made to police earlier in February 2012, he reported seeing a black man going through a neighbour's bins. "I know the resident. He's caucasian," he told the dispatcher.



Z had every right to follow M. That is what neighborhood watch people do. Z was guarding his neighbors, which is patriotic.
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 11:06 am
@Advocate,
Beside Trayvon have zero right to launch an attack on Zimmerman for following him even if Zimmerman was a member of the KKK and Zimmerman would not be under any obligation to allow himself to be beaten to death either.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  2  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 12:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
He's caucasian,"


Who the Hell says that? Anyone would say white. More fabrications and stretching of the real truth.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 12:06 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Who the Hell says that? Anyone would say white. More fabrications and stretching of the real truth.


Zimmerman was supposed to have used the word coon on the 911 tape at one point and who in the hell used that word in the last fifty years either.
coldjoint
 
  1  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 12:09 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Zimmerman was supposed to have used the word coon


I am pretty sure it was "jigaboo" Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 12:13 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
Z had every right to follow M. That is what neighborhood watch people do. Z was guarding his neighbors, which is patriotic.

Unfortunately, once again, you simply don't know what you are talking about.

Neighborhood Watch volunteers are not supposed to follow people they see as "suspicious" or who are doing something amiss--it is against NW rules to do so.

Neighborhood Watch volunteers are not "guards" in any sense. They have no security duties, and they are not supposed to be armed when performing their observations. They have no law enforcement status, and the police specifically do not want them performing law enforcement functions.

The functions of a Neighborhood Watch volunteer are limited to simply calling a non-emergency police number to report anything they observe that seems amiss they feel the police should check out. That's it. They observe and report. Any further investigation and intervention is done by the police.

There's nothing particularly "patriotic" about any of this, it's really no more than any average citizen should do if they see something that doesn't seem right in their neighborhood, it's simply that the NW volunteer has offered to be a little more conscientious about doing it.

George Zimmerman knew all of these things, he was the one who helped set up the Neighborhood Watch in his housing complex. He was also a wannabe cop who had applied to a police force and had been rejected as an unsuitable applicant, so, for him, being able to maintain some contact with police, even by making his rather frequent phone call "reports" of things he observed, may have helped him to feel part of law enforcement, even though he was not.

Zimmerman took that overblown sense of self-importance even one step further--he wanted to be informed of all calls made to the police by his neighbors, and to be informed by them if they noticed anything that seemed amiss--I believe he had cards printed with his phone number which he distributed for that purpose. He clearly was trying to create the impression he was some sort of liaison with the police--which he definitely was not, even if, in his mind, he might have believed he was. He wanted some attention and recognition, but, in reality, he was simply being a nosy and busybody neighbor who wanted to become involved in things that really had nothing to do with him. There was no reason for neighbors to have to include him if they wanted to report things on their own to the police, these were merely attempts on his part to create the illusion he had some sort of "status".

In all of that, we can see the same needs for attention and recognition that Zimmerman is now feeding on with his attempts to remain in the media spotlight--even if his unsavory claim to "fame" is based on the controversy surrounding his killing of an unarmed minor. Even when he was stopped for speeding, he made sure the cop recognized him, he posed for smiling photos at a gun factory, he peddled his primitive artwork on e-bay, along with the added bonus that he would personally deliver it to the seller, and now he's come up with a scheme to take part in a "celebrity boxing match" on pay-per-view. Of course, all of that is in addition to his run-ins with the police over domestic violence incidents and other traffic infractions that also kept him in the news since his acquittal.

Rather than trying to maintain a low profile, given the public controversy and acrimony regarding both the homicide he committed, as well as his acquittal, he's become a full blown media whore who can't stop calling attention to himself. Unfortunately, he also seems unable to stop menacing and threatening others, or to stop violating various kinds of laws, causing even his own attorneys to keep distancing themselves from him. Just this week, Mark O'Mara, who dumped Zimmerman after the September domestic violence incident, removed himself from Zimmerman's defamation suit against NBC, and when the AP recently threatened a copyright infringement action against Zimmerman, for using one of their images to create his latest "original artwork", the attorney who handled his last domestic violence incident in December said she no longer represents him either. She was also the attorney who, during a panel discussion about the murder case, described Zimmerman as a "wannabe cop" who should not have followed Trayvon Martin that night, or been carrying a gun when he did so.

Why people like you keep trying to promote this man as some kind of good citizen or "patriot" is truly baffling because that clearly flies in the face of reality. After Zimmerman devised an elaborate scheme to conceal his assets, as well as a second passport, from the judge presiding over his bail hearing, as well as from his own lawyer, with, according to the judge, the likely intention of fleeing the country to avoid trial, he unequivocally revealed himself to be a deceptive and deceitful liar and manipulator. That's not my idea of a good citizen, that's a sociopath whose word cannot be believed.

Considering that most of your posts in this thread contain untrue or misleading information, like the one I am responding to now, no one in their right mind should believe you either.
coldjoint
 
  2  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 01:13 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
it is against NW rules to do so.


Show us the rules of the organization he belonged to, or just stop making things up. Either will do.
firefly
 
  0  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 01:20 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Show us the rules of the organization he belonged to, or just stop making things up. Either will do.

I suggest you address that to Advocate, he's the one who's made things up. Let him back up his assertions.

I have already previously gone over all of that in this thread.
coldjoint
 
  2  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 01:27 pm
@firefly,

Quote:
I have already previously gone over all of that in this thread.


Do you have the rules of Zimmermans NW group or not?
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 01:41 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
Z had every right to follow M. That is what neighborhood watch people do. Z was guarding his neighbors, which is patriotic.

Unfortunately, once again, you simply don't know what you are talking about.

Neighborhood Watch volunteers are not supposed to follow people
they see as "suspicious" or who are doing something amiss--it is against NW rules to do so.
SO WHAT???? Is anyone BOUND by those rules, Firefly???
Did Zimmy pledge his allegiance to those rules??

Will thay court-martial Zimmy
and throw him out of the group??
Does he CARE??
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 01:55 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Neighborhood Watch volunteers are not "guards" in any sense.
IF Zimmy was GUARDING the naborhood,
then that makes him de facto a guard, yes????



firefly wrote:
They have no security duties,
and they are not supposed to be armed when performing their observations.
U tell us that citizens
are not supposed to be exercising their Constitutional Rights to be armed????
Zimmy had as much right to carry a gun as he did to carry a Bible.

Zimmy lived in the naborhood. He had a right to walk around,
or drive around, in that gated community. He had a right to look
around him, as he moved in there. He DID that on the nite in question
when he saw the street thug casing the houses.
firefly
 
  0  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 02:00 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:

Do you have the rules of Zimmermans NW group or not?

Yes I do--they were part of the publicly available evidence released by the prosecution in the murder case. So, they are available to you as well. If you are that interested, go find and read them. If you are too lazy to do that, get lost.

Unfortunately, Advocate doesn't seem to have familiarized himself with that information.

These Neighborhood Watch programs are nationwide, and part of USAonWatch, and all of them admonish against citizen intervention--the volunteers are only to observe and report.
Quote:
USAonWatch does not advocate watch members taking any action when observing suspicious activity in their neighborhood. Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” and should report their observations of suspicious activities to their local law enforcement. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action; citizens should never try to take action on those observations.USAonWatch encourages all watch groups to register with our national database at www.usaonwatch.org where multiple resources are made available to assist in the training and maintaining of Neighborhood Watch groups and its members.
http://www.sheriffs.org/content/usaonwatch%C2%AE-program

Zimmerman stopped functioning as a Neighborhood Watch once he made his phone call to the police. Everything he did after that was due to his own personal craziness and obsessions, including his compulsion to pursue his "suspect".
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 02:05 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:

Zimmy lived in the naborhood. He had a right to walk around,
or drive around, in that gated community. He had a right to look
around him, as he moved in there.

As did Trayvon Martin, a house guest in the community, who had the same rights to do those things unbothered by George Zimmerman. All Martin was doing was walking around and looking around.

Trailing someone in the dark, as Zimmerman did, is considerably more "suspicious", and inappropriate, behavior than anything Martin did.

If Zimmerman didn't want to be bound by the rules of a NW watch volunteer, he was the wrong person to be doing that task, and, by disregarding those rules, he loses any justifiable claim that his pursuit of Martin was part of his NW functions.
Quote:
IF Zimmy was GUARDING the naborhood,
then that makes him de facto a guard, yes????

He wasn't supposed to be "guarding" his neighborhood--only watching/observing it. That's why it's called a Neighborhood Watch.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 02:16 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
who had the same rights to do those things unbothered by George Zimmerman.


Show me statute or Constitutional quote that supports this asserted right to not be bothered by others please.
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 02:23 pm
@firefly,
DAVID wrote:
Zimmy lived in the naborhood. He had a right to walk around,
or drive around, in that gated community. He had a right to look
around him, as he moved in there.
firefly wrote:
As did Trayvon Martin, a house guest in the community,
Yes.


firefly wrote:
who had the same rights to do those things unbothered by George Zimmerman.
All Martin was doing was walking around and looking around.
Martin had NO right
against being followed. No one has that right.


firefly wrote:
Trailing someone in the dark, as Zimmerman did,
is considerably more "suspicious", and inappropriate, behavior than anything Martin did.
Martin became violent; he had no right to do so. He was not being attacked.
There was absolutely NOTHING "inappropriate" about following Martin.

In similar circumstances, Zimmy will be justified in doing it again.





David
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 02:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
This was a private gated community, where residents and guests had an expectation of being free to walk around, without being bothered, or harassed, or menaced, or stalked in the dark, by anyone else residing there.

Even on public streets, we try to prevent others from bothering people by doing things like pan-handling. And these weren't public streets.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 02:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
It would seems that if you do anything that annoy Firefly she think she then have the right to assault you and you have no right to defend yourself from her attacks.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 02:38 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
If Zimmerman didn't want to be bound by the rules of a NW watch volunteer, he was the wrong person to be doing that task, and, by disregarding those rules, he loses any justifiable claim that his pursuit of Martin was part of his NW functions.
"Wrong [sic]" only by the criteria of that private club.
Anyone is free to violate & disregard those rules.


DAVID wrote:
IF Zimmy was GUARDING the naborhood,
then that makes him de facto a guard, yes????
firefly wrote:
He wasn't supposed to be "guarding" his neighborhood--only watching/observing it.
That's why it's called a Neighborhood Watch.
There was NO AUTHORITY against it, Firefly

Please note that any of the nabors coud freely do what Zimmy did,
disregarding the existence of that watch club.

Such a club need not exist for nabors to have the right
to move around on the streets of the area, LOOKING AROUND
and calling police when thay deem it appropriate.


Zimmy did not acquire any special rights by his membership
in any watching club.





David
firefly
 
  2  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 02:43 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Martin became violent; he had no right to do so. He was not being attacked.

How do you know that--he had just been stalked in the dark by a strange man, for no reason that could have been apparent to him, and, when Zimmerman finally confronted him, he may have tried to detain him (Jeantel heard Martin say to Zimmerman, "Get off of me") and he may have reached for his gun.

You do not know what happened, or what Zimmerman might have done, to cause Martin to react in self-defense. And all he seems to have done is punch Zimmerman once in the nose. Zimmerman's very minor injuries were not consistent with any beating or head-pounding. Zimmerman may have drawn his weapon and Martin may have been struggling with him to get the gun away from him, to protect his own life, which would explain Zimmerman's lack of injuries except for a minor nosebleed, it would also explain how Zimmerman managed to get his gun out once Martin was on top of him--he had already had it in his hand before that.

Zimmerman is a known liar and devious and deceptive manipulator--that was made clear at his bail hearing.

His version of what happened prior to the shooting is very questionable, which is why the police didn't believe him that night. They wanted him arrested and charged with manslaughter.

And, since his acquittal, he has continued to menace and threaten other people, and to violate various laws, and to display his poor judgment and impaired impulse control.
0 Replies
 
 

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