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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 10:09 am
Quote:
Frank Apisa said again: Zimmerman stalked Martin

Tell it to the jury..Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/zim-not-guilty_zpsde3badb8.jpg~original
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 10:17 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Look at your definitions again. What Zimmerman was doing was stalking Marting...and there is nothing in the definitions you offered that disputes that.


Not true.........

Quote:
Under any circumstances...unless you can cite a legal ruling that the stalking Zimmerman did on Martin was legal...we have to go with, "We do not know."


As the state never charge or even suggested Zimmerman was stalking Trayvon then it hard to get a court ruling over the subject.

You claiming he was stalking carry zero weight as must as you would love to find something that Zimmerman did wrong that night.

But feel free to find one case in the nation where a court had rule that following someone on the public streets to guide the police to that person for a few minutes is legal stalking under any state laws in the US.
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 11:04 am
@BillRM,
No wonder most of you are confused; you don't even know the definition of simple, common, words.

Quote:
stalk2
stôk/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: stalking
1.
pursue or approach stealthily.
"a cat stalking a bird"
synonyms: creep up on, trail, follow, shadow, track down, go after, be after, course, hunt; More
firefly
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 11:09 am
@BillRM,
Quote:

So you have no reason to think that Zimmerman did a damn thing wrong that night so why the constant attacked on the man who had been clear by a jury?

I bet you said that about O.J. too. His jury also cleared him at his murder trial.
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 11:20 am
@firefly,
Bill,
Quote:
"cleared by the jury"....
doesn't prove he's innocent. It only proves that the prosecuting attorneys did a very poor job without challenging anything the defense attorney brought up during the trial. The defense attorney, O'Mara, even lied about Trayvon, which he later apologized for, but that doesn't exonerate the prosecuting attorneys and their incompetence.

Incompetence somewhat analogous to David's knowledge of the laws of this country. Sad that these incompetent lawyers are able to practice law at the expense of innocent lives lost.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 11:22 am
@cicerone imposter,
LOL that deal with hunting a bird or some such I do take note that you did not give the meaning in dealing with stalking a human. Zimmerman was not as far as we know planning on eating Trayvon.

Nor was there any indication that Zimmerman was acting in a Stealthily manner.

Quote:
pursue or approach stealthily.
"a cat stalking a bird"


Here is the dictionary meaning when apply to a human.

Quote:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stalker

2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 11:46 am
@Frank Apisa,
BillRM can try to defend Zimmerman's stalking all he wants, bur the new Police Chief in Sanford doesn't agree with him that there is nothing wrong with such behavior, and he's prohibiting future neighborhood watch volunteers from doing that.
Quote:
SANFORD -- More than a year and a half after Trayvon Martin was shot and killed by George Zimmerman, the city of Sanford is making major changes to its neighborhood watch program, including...forbidding them from pursuing anyone in their neighborhoods...

Sanford's new police chief, Cecil Smith, said the neighborhood watch program as it was operated while Zimmerman was part of it was dysfunctional and had no accountability.

"In this program, it is clearly stated that you will not pursue an individual," Smith explained...

Smith said when he took over as Sanford's chief of police in April, the neighborhood watch program Zimmerman was part of was still operating the same way it was when he shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin more than a year earlier.

Though Zimmerman was acquitted of second-degree murder in July, Smith said the program needed to be re-evaluated, so he stopped it completely until changes could be implemented.

"We've seen this happen already, where an individual was declaring that under the auspice of neighborhood watch, he was performing a duty that he wasn't," Smith explained,
calling the previous state of the program dysfunctional, disorganized and disjointed...

In addition to the ban on ...following suspects, the revamped neighborhood watch program in Sanford additionally will include mandatory background checks....

Smith said the new program is really just getting back to the basics of what neighborhood watch is supposed to be.

"Neighborhood watch is a very simple organization. It's about neighbors helping neighbors, talking to neighbors about ways to make their neighborhood safe. That's it," Smith said...

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/10/29/neighborhood_watch_zimmerman.html






hawkeye10
 
  2  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 11:53 am
@firefly,
police chiefs dont have the power to prevent citizens from exercising their rights, the most they can do is discourage it.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 11:59 am
@hawkeye10,
Stalking is illegal.

From legal dictionary.
Quote:
Stalking
Criminal activity consisting of the repeated following and harassing of another person.Stalking is a distinctive form of criminal activity composed of a series of actions that taken individually might constitute legal behavior. For example, sending flowers, writing love notes, and waiting for someone outside her place of work are actions that, on their own, are not criminal. When these actions are coupled with an intent to instill fear or injury, however, they may constitute a pattern of behavior that is illegal. Though anti-stalking laws are gender neutral, most stalkers are men and most victims are women.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Florida statute on stalking.
Quote:
Fla. Stat. § 784.048. Stalking; definitions; penalties. (2012)

(1) As used in this section, the term:

(a) "Harass" means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose.

(b) "Course of conduct" means a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts over a period of time, however short, which evidences a continuity of purpose. The term does not include constitutionally protected activity such as picketing or other organized protests.

(c) "Credible threat" means a verbal or nonverbal threat, or a combination of the two, including threats delivered by electronic communication or implied by a pattern of conduct, which places the person who is the target of the threat in reasonable fear for his or her safety or the safety of his or her family members or individuals closely associated with the person, and which is made with the apparent ability to carry out the threat to cause such harm. It is not necessary to prove that the person making the threat had the intent to actually carry out the threat. The present incarceration of the person making the threat is not a bar to prosecution under this section.
hawkeye10
 
  3  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
confronting a follow citizen about possible ilkegal behaviour is good citizenship, expanding the definition of stalking to discourage this good citizenship would be a mistake, as well as being a violation if our constitutional right to free movement.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
If there's enough evidence to pursue it. Trayvon didn't commit any crime.

I know you're stupid, but you keep proving it over and over.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:14 pm
@hawkeye10,
You,
Quote:
confronting a follow citizen about possible ilkegal behaviour is good citizenship


It would be funny if somebody followed you, and killed you, because he/she though you were a possible criminal.

Very funny - with your own approval.
BillRM
 
  2  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
It would be funny if somebody followed you, and killed you, because he/she though you were a possible criminal.


He got killed due to attacking Zimmerman not due to Zimmerman thinking he might be up to no good.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
repeated following and harassing of another person.


What do you not understand about the word repeat just to start with?

A few minutes of one time openly following someone for a legal purpose in not stalking.
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
and serves no legitimate purpose.


Guiding the police to a person to have him check out is a legitimate purpose if there was ever was one.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:36 pm
Quote:
Cicerone said: Stalking is illegal.

In that case, if you and others allege Zim was a stalker, why ain't he in jail?
Hey, maybe you should go out and try to make a citizens arrest on Zim if you dare..Smile

firefly
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
police chiefs dont have the power to prevent citizens from exercising their rights, the most they can do is discourage it.

They can prevent them from doing things and then claiming they were doing it as a member of the neighborhood watch, or claiming they were justified in doing certain actions as a member of a neighborhood watch.

Zimmerman didn't say he was acting as a private citizen when he stalked Martin--part of his defense was that he was "helping" the police, as part of his neighborhood watch duties--he was being "a good citizen".

It was Zimmerman's claim of being a member of the neighborhood watch that gave any legitimacy, at all, to his pursuing Martin, or even his call to the police about him. Had there been no connection to neighborhood watch, his designating someone, who had not committed any crimes, as "a suspect", and then pursuing "his suspect" through his darkened private community, would not have been viewed as benevolently.

What he did was not a duty of a neighborhood watch volunteer, it was against the rules at the time he did it, and what he did that night, by stalking Martin, were the actions of a vigilante. The "good citizen" claim is nonsense, he was being a vigilante, and if the issue of his being on a neighborhood watch never came up, he clearly would have been seen as a self-appointed vigilante by everyone.

The Police Chief clearly is going to make sure that vigilantes don't have the "neighborhood watch excuse" to hide behind again.

A Police Chief can't stop people from committing crimes, like murder, either, the most they can do is discourage it, or arrest them after the fact.

Obviously, the Police Chief doesn't think it's a good idea for any private citizen to take it upon themselves to label someone, who they have not witnessed committing any crime, "a suspect", and then go on to play wannabe cop and trail/stalk their "suspect" in the dark--that's their job.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:47 pm
@BillRM,
What was the "legal purpose" you are talking about? Nobody else in their right mind would have tagged Trayvon as a criminal; that was all in Zimmerman's own mind. Trayvon did not commit any crime when he was stalked.

Please identify the crime that Trayvon committed?
firefly
 
  0  
Mon 16 Dec, 2013 12:58 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Quote:
confronting a follow citizen about possible ilkegal behaviour is good citizenship...

Martin had not done anything remotely illegal before Zimmerman pursued him. Nothing.

A "good citizen", seeing someone in his private community he thought was acting oddly, by just waking around in the rain, would have driven over to him and asked if he needed any help

And "confronting a follow citizen about "possible ilkegal behaviour " is not "good citizenship"--it's playing cop, it's being a vigilante. A "good citizen: just calls the cops and lets them do their job. "Possible illegal behavior" is something for the police to check out--it's not the same as witnessing someone actually committing a crime.

And that's why the Police Chief is not going to let neighborhood watch volunteers hide behind that "good citizen" excuse for vigilantism in the future. The Police Chief doesn't want vigilantes stalking people they decide are criminal "suspects", let alone confronting them, and then claiming they are "helping the police". He clearly does not approve of what Zimmerman did that night, and he's making it clear he doesn't want to see that happen again.
 

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