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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 09:40 pm
@firefly,
hawk's ability to understand common English words are beyond repair. He's so confused, he uses common words using his own definition for them.

He can't even explain simple concepts like empathy. He probably has none to realize his inability to "feel" for the other person. It's all cut and dry for him - without any feelings.

It's really fascinating to observe.
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 09:58 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
He can't even explain simple concepts like empathy. He probably has none to realize his inability to "feel" for the other person. It's all cut and dry for him - without any feelings.


An you had shown zero empathy to the real victim of that night.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:08 pm
@BillRM,
You don't know who the REAL VICTIM was that night. It was Trayvon and his family and friends. It was the black community who gets the short end of the stick more frequently than others.

You wouldn't understand any of this. THAT'S A FACT.
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You don't know who the REAL VICTIM was that night. It was Trayvon and his family and friends. It was the black community who gets the short end of the stick more frequently than others.

You wouldn't understand any of this. THAT'S A FACT.


Sorry I know the race baiters are selling the nonsense that it is a racial issue just as they try to sell the same story line in the Duke so call rape case of three rich white kids gang raping a poor hard working black college student who needed to do dancing to support herself and her kids and get through college herself.

Sharpton even offer to paid for her college education.

Neither the so call duke rape case or the so call racial killing of Trayvon by a "white" latin have any connection to reality.

I do agree with you however that the black community is getting the short end as all the effects going into chasing fairy tales should go into dealing with the real problems and dangers that the black community is under.

Instead of rallies to go after Zimmerman in Tallahassee there should have been rallies to restore the voting rights of 33 percents of the black males in the state who are ex-felons and that would be just a start.
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
If these Zimmerman's groupies were so convinced by Zimmerman's version of events, and were so happy with the verdict, they wouldn't be re-hashing this case over and over endlessly.

That they can't tolerate any questioning of Zimmerman's credibility, or the verdict, reveals their own unexpressed sense of unease about those things. It was an extremely controversial verdict, and that's a fact, based on all the opinion polls taken afterward. Obviously, those dissatisfied with the verdict, would be expected to be the most vocal about that, But, the true Zimmerman believers, happy with the verdict, should consider the case closed, and not be either attacking Martin, or trying to defend Zimmerman, 5 months after that verdict came in.

So I think that all these stauch Zimmermanites, are revealing all their doubts of what really happened that night by their inability to stop promoting Zimmerman's version of events, while ignoring all of the state's evidence that throws his credibility into doubt, because any questioning of Zimmerman's account throws them into a knee-jerk defense of him--and I think what they are doing is really trying to convince themselves.

If they really believed Zimmerman, and were fully comfortable with the verdict, they wouldn't need to do that. They'd just ignore the doubters. They would have stopped posting a long time ago, because there would be no controversy for them. There would be no need for them to continue defending Zimmerman by trashing Martin, and continuing to do a "pound and grind" on Martin's reputation, and character, and memory, they would just be happy with the verdict.

And, it's because they really aren't comfortable about Zimmerman's behavior that night in February 2012, that they can't objectively discuss the way he's been behaving since his acquittal. They come up with with knee-jerk defenses and rationalizations for that too, because, if they had to objectively look at those post-acquittal behaviors, that might raise some nasty doubts about what Zimmerman is really like, and what really happened with Martin.

So, they're, ironically, convincing me that they really don't believe Zimmerman either...they just like guns, and the right to use them, and they'll support anyone who gets away with doing that.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:31 pm
@BillRM,
You call it "race baiters," because you really can't respond intelligently. It's like calling everybody who supports the Palestinians against those who steal their lands as "anti-Semites."

This has nothing to do with Sharpton. It has nothing to do with Duke (rape).

Funny thing about you whites is that you never own up to the children killers, murderers, wife-beaters, and rapists.



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From theroot.com.
Quote:
"Blacks today are nine times more likely to be killed by other blacks than by whites," Steele wrote. He went on to attack the Revs. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for "exploiting" Trayvon's death in an effort to promote a "liberal" agenda -- a point that O'Reilly was all too happy to expound.

Steele's perspective, though myopic and misguided, remains pervasive and embedded in the broader social consciousness. This red-herring approach is not new, but in the face of Trayvon's death -- for which there remains no arrest, no charges and no arraignment -- these obstructive tactics require an equal and opposite response.

What Will, Steele and O'Reilly failed to mention is the exacting truth that white Americans are just as likely to be killed by other whites. According to Justice Department statistics (pdf), 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.


Remember that if you can. I doubt it.
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:40 pm
Good news with all charges drop Zimmerman will be getting his guns back and his CC license back.

As soon as Holder get done playing with himself he will be getting back the gun he used to defend himself against the would be murderer Trayvon also.

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/zimerman-arsenal-638x474.jpg
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
This has nothing to do with Sharpton. It has nothing to do with Duke (rape).


The same race baiters was involved in both matters and without them pressuring the state government and threatening to riot with help and funding from the DOJ no charges would have been file against Zimmerman.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:46 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You don't know who the REAL VICTIM was that night. It was Trayvon and his family and friends. It was the black community who gets the short end of the stick more frequently than others.

You wouldn't understand any of this. THAT'S A FACT.
we dont have enough facts to make victim/abuser determinations here......
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
What Will, Steele and O'Reilly failed to mention is the exacting truth that white Americans are just as likely to be killed by other whites. According to Justice Department statistics (pdf), 84 percent of white people killed every year are killed by other whites.


An what you are over looking is that the leading cause of deaths of young black men are other young black men and that is not true of any other group in society where the leading cause of deaths of young males are accidents not homicides.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 10:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
we dont have enough facts to make victim/abuser determinations here.....


I disagree with that position as all the evidence point in only the direction of Zimmerman being the victim of an attacked by Trayvon.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 11:09 pm
@BillRM,
Yup, a 17 year old black kid walking home from the store is followed by this guy with a gun for no apparent reason at all - except in his own mind this kid is ready to commit a crime. How Zimmerman knows this is beyond common sense or logic.

Zimmerman calls the police, and the dispatcher tells him "you don't need to do that." That is to continue following this black kid, because the police are on their way.

Zimmerman follows anyway - and is now a vigilante (wanna be cop) who's in pursuit of this criminal. How he knows he's a criminal is again beyond common sense or logic.

A scuffle takes place, and Zimmerman shoots Trayvon dead.

*********

Now, the defense lies about Trayvon that he and another kid beat up on an old man. Turns out that was a lie.

The defense attorney, if you can call them that, fails to challenge anything and everything the defense presents during trial.

So, in accordance with "stand your ground laws of Florida," Zimmerman is found not guilty.

Zimmerman follows a young kid without cause, fights with the kid, then kills him.

I'm sure all the Zimmerman apologists would feel the same if he had killed their kid.

Won't they?

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 11:54 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Good news with all charges drop Zimmerman will be getting his guns back and his CC license back.

As soon as Holder get done playing with himself he will be getting back the gun he used to defend himself
against the would be murderer Trayvon also.

DAVID wrote:
He shud get a BETTER GUN THAN THAT, Bill.
I recommend a compact .44 revolver with hollowpointed slugs
to avoid overpenetration and optimize energy-dump into the target. David



http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/zimerman-arsenal-638x474.jpg
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Fri 13 Dec, 2013 11:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Yup, a 17 year old black kid walking home from the store is followed by this guy with a gun for no apparent reason at all - except in his own mind this kid is ready to commit a crime. How Zimmerman knows this is beyond common sense or logic.

Zimmerman calls the police, and the dispatcher tells him "you don't need to do that." That is to continue following this black kid, because the police are on their way.

Zimmerman follows anyway - and is now a vigilante (wanna be cop) who's in pursuit of this criminal. How he knows he's a criminal is again beyond common sense or logic.

A scuffle takes place, and Zimmerman shoots Trayvon dead.

*********

Now, the defense lies about Trayvon that he and another kid beat up on an old man. Turns out that was a lie.

The defense attorney, if you can call them that, fails to challenge anything and everything the defense presents during trial.

So, in accordance with "stand your ground laws of Florida," Zimmerman is found not guilty.

Zimmerman follows a young kid without cause, fights with the kid, then kills him.

I'm sure all the Zimmerman apologists would feel the same if he had killed their kid.

Won't they?
Your allegations of fact are all scrambled up.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:02 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
we dont have enough facts to make victim/abuser determinations here.....


I disagree with that position as all the evidence point in only
the direction of Zimmerman being the victim of an attacked by Trayvon.
I agree with Bill.





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:03 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
we dont have enough facts to make victim/abuser determinations here......

We have enough facts to know who the victim was.

Trayvon Martin was the victim of a homicide committed by George Zimmerman--Zimmerman admitted to killing him.

Zimmerman was tried for murder and was acquitted. That doesn't make Trayvon Martin any less a victim of a homicide commited by Zimmerman, it just means Zimmerman's not being held criminally liable for the act.

Zimmerman wasn't the victim of the sort of "attack" where a total stranger suddenly jumped out of the bushes to mug him, and they fought, and Zimmerman wound up killing someone who he felt was threatening his life and who had just attacked him in the commission of a crime. In that scenario, Zimmerman could be considered a victim--a crime victim of an attempted mugging.

That wasn't what happened that night in February 2012. Zimmerman was not a crime victim. The police investigation concluded that Martin had not engaged in any criminal activity, and there was no evidence to suggest he had any intention to do so. It also concluded that this was a totally avoidable death, had Zimmerman not followed Martin, and that he further failed to defuse the situation by not identifying himself to Martin.

Those things make it inaccurate to consider Zimmerman a "victim" in terms of what happened that night. He instigated and provoked the encounter with Martin--he went after him, he stalked him.

Whether Martin reacted to Zimmerman's actions with a blow thrown in self-defense, or in anger, we do not know, and will never know, and the jury verdict made no decision on that score at all. Trayvon Martin was not on trial, only Zimmerman was, and he could have shot in self-defense no matter how that struggle started, and whether Martin was acting in self-defense or not, because there was no convincing evidence either way. The trial issue was only whether he needed to shoot him, at the moment he pulled the trigger, or whether he shot him for other reasons.

No matter how you look at it, Zimmerman was not the victim. His actions instigated, provoked, and brought about the encounter with Martin. So, while he does not have criminal liability for the death, morally he is responsible for causing a needless death that could have been totally avoided.

That makes Martin the victim of a needless and avoidable homicide.

Martin is clearly the victim, Zimmerman is not.

His rabid supporters seem to think that someone should be able to follow an innocent person, provoke an encounter with that person, shoot and kill him, make up any cock and bull story about it being self-defense, and the police should unquestioningly swallow that story and never make an arrest or charge the person. Anything else becomes a "malicious prosecution" and, in their thinking, turns the shooter into a "victim". His supporters want an unquestioned license to kill. That's absolutely nuts.

Zimmerman should have been arrested the night of the shooting because his account was "unconvincing" to the chief police investigator--his account was inconsistent, contradictory, and seemed "embellished", his injuries were extremely minor, and his victim was unarmed and showed no evidence of having been in a fight, his only injury being the bullet-hole in his chest. The D.A. had been wrong not to agree to charge him with manslaughter, as the chief police investigator had recommended to him.. Had Zimmerman been arrested and charged that night, those public protests would not have happened. That outrage was appropriate--this was a very questionable death.

In no sense is Zimmerman a victim--the victim wound up dead.



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:04 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You didn't explain how it's all scrambled up?

Typical challenge without really telling us the reasons for your opinion.
Typical bull shyt.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:18 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

From theroot.com.
Quote:
"Blacks today are nine times more likely
to be killed by other blacks than by whites,"
Steele wrote. He went on to attack the Revs. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for "exploiting" Trayvon's death in an effort to promote a "liberal" agenda -- a point that O'Reilly was all too happy to expound.

Steele's perspective, though myopic and misguided, remains pervasive and embedded in the broader social consciousness. This red-herring approach is not new, but in the face of Trayvon's death -- for which there remains no arrest, no charges and no arraignment -- these obstructive tactics require an equal and opposite response.

What Will, Steele and O'Reilly failed to mention is the exacting truth that
white Americans are just as likely to be killed by other whites. According to Justice Department statistics (pdf),

84 percent of white people
killed every year are killed by other whites.


Remember that if you can. I doubt it.
Lemme get this straight, cicerone imposter:
84% = "nine times more likely"; is that correct ?????????





David
firefly
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:26 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Lemme get this straight, cicerone imposter:
84% = "nine times more likely"; is that correct

No, that's not correct, David.

You're allegedly a Mensa member, but you can't see you're confusing two different statements, and two different sets of statistics?
Quote:

"Blacks today are nine times more likely
to be killed by other blacks than by whites," ...

84 percent of white people
killed every year are killed by other whites.

Maybe now you can figure it out.

Your ability to examine evidence is very suspect, David, given how you scrambled what you were looking at.
 

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