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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
spendius
 
  3  
Fri 20 Sep, 2013 01:51 pm
@BillRM,
I read, Bill, that suttee was introduced to discourage wives poisoning their husbands. Their voluntary immolation was seen as proving that he had died from natural causes.

As is the less extreme version of rending the clothing and shrieking at the sky.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sun 22 Sep, 2013 11:30 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Here ya go, David, another responsible gun owner in your age cohort acting responsibly with his gun, to preserve himself from ketchup bottles made unopenable by a sadistic wife determined to starve him to death (sarcasm alert);
Yea, like murderers waited until guns were invented
before getting their job done; therefore, Julius Caesar
died un-eventfully of old age, in Rome.

Government in this Republic was permitted to exist,
subject to some limitations in the Bill of Rights
(comparable to each of the chains on the Frankenstein monster
on his slab in the lab). As ice is made of water, so FREEDOM,
is made of the incapacities of government jurisdiction.

Let us celebrate the curtailments, degradations, and limitations
imposed upon government by the gods of its creation: the Individual citizens.

I, for one, refuse to contribute to enabling government
to have any more power in the subject.




David
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Sun 22 Sep, 2013 11:59 pm
Don't be stupid, David. Of course murders were committed before guns were invented. Guns, however, made the commission of murder easier, quicker, at a greater distance, and on a much wider scale. There's a reason people don't use knives (or long knives) on the battlefield anymore.

And very simply, if government didn't exist, you'd be wearing a badly cured deerskin pelt and gnawing a half-cooked haunch of badger over a smoky fire in some forest. Your freedoms are secured by government. And you clearly don't know jackshit about what the Framers intended the Second Amendment for, and what Scalia, speaking for the SCOTUS majority, has said it is and is not.
oralloy
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 12:39 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Guns, however, made the commission of murder easier, quicker, at a greater distance, and on a much wider scale. There's a reason people don't use knives (or long knives) on the battlefield anymore.

Wider scale?

You might want to note some of the death tolls in pre-gun warfare.


MontereyJack wrote:
And you clearly don't know jackshit about what the Framers intended the Second Amendment for, and what Scalia, speaking for the SCOTUS majority, has said it is and is not.

No, he is quite familiar with that knowledge.

You, on the other hand, seem to not know the first thing about the subject.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 02:00 am
You don't know jackshit either if you think that.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 02:03 am
@oralloy,
oralloy says:
Quote:
You might want to note some of the death tolls in pre-gun warfare.

Name some that compare with the major battles of the American Civil War or WWI, for example.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 03:21 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

oralloy says:
Quote:
You might want to note some of the death tolls in pre-gun warfare.

Name some that compare with the major battles of the American Civil War or WWI, for example.
Total participation on both sides was greater after guns were invented,
the armies being drawn from a larger populace on each side.
Pre-gun armies were often big believers in large scale butchery
of their vanquished foes (not to say universally).





David
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 03:43 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
You don't know jackshit either if you think that.

Nope. I am fully familiar with both the Constitution and the Heller ruling, and so is OmSigDAVID.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 03:43 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Wider scale?
You might want to note some of the death tolls in pre-gun warfare.

Name some that compare with the major battles of the American Civil War or WWI, for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_by_casualties
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 04:41 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Don't be stupid, David.
Maybe u have some trouble in recognizing sarcasm.



MontereyJack wrote:
Of course murders were committed before guns were invented.
Guns, however, made the commission of murder easier,
quicker, at a greater distance, and on a much wider scale.
On how much wider a scale
have murders been committed ?



MontereyJack wrote:
There's a reason people don't use knives (or long knives) on the battlefield anymore.
Guns r better, but history proves that homicide will get done, no matter WHAT.




MontereyJack wrote:
And very simply, if government didn't exist,
you'd be wearing a badly cured deerskin pelt and gnawing a half-
cooked haunch of badger over a smoky fire in some forest.
Really!?? U r a great lover and respecter of authority.
I disdain it. (Call me a hypocrit for having exercised it, from time to time.)
U 'd have been very comfortable with international socialism or with national socialism.


MontereyJack wrote:
Your freedoms are secured by government.
Thay r secured FROM the damned thing.



MontereyJack wrote:
you clearly don't know jackshit about what the Framers intended the Second Amendment for,
I hear the bleat of your frustrated emotions
qua the discredited, un-successful authoritarian distortions
of American history regarding the right to fight back against predatory violence.




MontereyJack wrote:
and what Scalia, speaking for the SCOTUS majority, has said it is and is not.
If u wanna accuse me of misrepresenting the HELLER case, then have at it.
Please indicate the inconsistency that u have in mind
between the USSC and me?? I don't pretend that I have agreed
with the USSC about EVERYTHING in its history.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 05:43 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Name some that compare with the major battles of the American Civil War or WWI, for example.


You got to be kidding me the Romans lost thirty to fifty thousands men in one battle in the Punic wars!!!!!!

Cannae (216 BCE): 44,000 Romans and 6,000 Carthag. k.[/color]

You might read a few history books before making those kind of statements as people been killing people in very very very large numbers long before gun power came along.



Quote:



http://necrometrics.com/romestat.htm

First Punic War (264 to 241 BCE) 400,000 [make link]
Richard A. Gabriel, The Culture of War: Invention and Early Development, (1990) pp.110-111. “Polybius called this war the bloodiest in history, and it is probable that the loss of life on both sides, most of it Roman, approached four hundred thousand men.”

Second Punic War (218 to 202 BCE) 770,000 [make link]

Theodore Ayrault Dodge, Hannibal: A History of the Art of War Among the Carthaginians and Romans (1891), p.610-611. To the 300,000 Roman battle deaths recorded by the Roman historian Appian (Pun. 20.134), Dodge adds 100,000 disease deaths for the Italian front, and the same again for Spain. His final estimate is 500,000 Roman and 270,000 Carthaginian soldiers dead of all causes.
Will Durant, Caesar and Christ (1944)
Lake Trasimene (217 BCE): "nearly all" in Roman Army of 30,000 killed.
Cannae (216 BCE): 44,000 Romans and 6,000 Carthag. k.

Zama (202 BCE): 20,000 Carth. k.
TOTAL: 300,000 men killed (Appian viii 95)
Cannae (216 BCE): 50,000-70,000 Romans and 6,000 Carthag. k. (Flexner, Pessimist's Guide to History)
Spain (150 BCE)
Galba massacres 8,000 surrendering Lusitani [http://www.ualberta.ca/~csmackay/CLASS_365/Misadmin.html#Galba]
Siege of Carthage (146 BCE)
Population reduced from 500,000 to 55,000 (Durant, Caesar and Christ)
Ben Kiernan, “The First Genocide: Carthage, 146 BC,” Diogenes 203 (2004), pp. 27–39.: 150,000 died in the fall of Carthage.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 05:56 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Name some that compare with the major battles of the American Civil War or WWI, for example.


Here some more details on the battle of Cannae and would you care for more battles where the death tolls was similar as this is just the first that came to my mind after I read your silly challenge.

The Rome republic had at least one civil war for example where the total death toll was about the same as the US civil war.

Or would you prefer others examples not dealing with the Romans?


Quote:



http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/battleswarsto1000/p/cannae.htm


Conflict:

The Battle of Cannae took place during the Second Punic War (218-210 BC) between Rome and Carthage.

Dates:

The battle occurred on August 2, 216 BC at Cannae in southeast Italy.

Commanders & Armies:

Carthage

Hannibal
40,000 heavy infantry, 6,000 light infantry, 8,000 cavalry
Rome

Gaius Terentius Varro
Lucius Aemilius Paullus
87,000 men
Battle Summary:

After the start of the Second Punic War, the Carthaginian general Hannibal boldly crossed the Alps and invaded Italy. Winning battles at Trebia (218 BC) and Lake Trasimene (217 BC), Hannibal moved south plundering the countryside and working to make Rome's allies defect to Carthage's side. In the spring of 216 BC, Hannibal seized the Roman supply depot at Cannae in southeast Italy. With Hannibal sitting astride Rome's supply lines, the Roman Senate called for action. Assembling a massive army of nearly 87,000 men, the Consuls Gaius Terentius Varro and Lucius Aemilius Paullus advanced to face the Carthaginians.

The two armies met along the banks of the Aufidus River on July 31 and began skirmishing. On August 2, Varro and Paullus formed up their army for battle with their infantry densely packed in the center and the cavalry on the wings. The Consuls planned to use the infantry to quickly break the Carthaginian lines. Opposite, Hannibal placed his cavalry and most veteran infantry on the wings and his lighter infantry in the center. As the two sides advanced, Hannibal's center moved forward, causing their line to bow in a crescent shape. On the Hannibal's left, his cavalry charged forward and routed the Roman horse.

To the right, Hannibal's cavalry was engaged with that of Rome's allies. Having destroyed their opposite number on the left, the Carthaginian cavalry rode behind the Roman army and assaulted the allied cavalry from the rear. Under attack from two directions, the allied cavalry fled the field. As the infantry began to engage, Hannibal had his center slowly retreat, while ordering the infantry on the wings to hold their position. The tightly packed Roman infantry continued to advance after the retreating Carthaginians, unaware of the trap that was about to be sprung.

As the Romans were drawn in, Hannibal ordered the infantry on his wings to turn and attack the Roman flanks. This was coupled with a massive assault on the Roman rear by the Carthaginian cavalry, which completely surrounded the Consuls' army. Trapped, the Romans became so compressed that many did not have space to raise their weapons. To speed the victory, Hannibal ordered his men to cut the hamstrings of each Roman and then move on to the next, commenting that the lamed could be slaughtered later at the Carthaginian's leisure. The fighting continued until evening with approximately 600 Romans dying per minute.

Casualties & Impact:

Various accounts of the Battle of Cannae show that 50,000-70,000 of the Romans, with 3,500-4,500 taken prisoner. It is known that approximately 14,000 were able to cut their way out and reach the town of Canusium. Hannibal's army suffered around 6,000 killed and 10,000 wounded. Though encouraged by his officers to march on Rome, Hannibal resisted as he lacked the equipment and supplies for a major siege. While victorious at Cannae, Hannibal would ultimately be defeated at the Battle of Zama (202 BC), and Carthage would lose the Second Punic War.

Roman Battle Links
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 08:39 am
@oralloy,
There are 11 ancient 'battles' that have over 100,000 casualties. Some include starvation, massacre of civilians, and extended sieges. (It also notes actual numbers are not known on most of them. The range on Baghdad casualties goes from 200,000 to 2 million.)

There are 50 modern battles that have over 100,000 casualties.

Clearly guns are much more effective.
BillRM
 
  0  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 08:53 am
@parados,
Quote:
There are 11 ancient 'battles' that have over 100,000 casualties. Some include starvation, massacre of civilians, and extended sieges. (It also notes actual numbers are not known on most of them. The range on Baghdad casualties goes from 200,000 to 2 million.)

There are 50 modern battles that have over 100,000 casualties.

Clearly guns are much more effective.


You got to be kidding me as hundred of millions world wide population in the ancient world as compare to billions in the modern world made your statement more then silly.

Oh as far as numbers are concern even to modern times it is hard to pin down casualties numbers.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 08:57 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
There are 11 ancient 'battles' that have over 100,000 casualties. Some include starvation, massacre of civilians, and extended sieges. (It also notes actual numbers are not known on most of them. The range on Baghdad casualties goes from 200,000 to 2 million.)

There are 50 modern battles that have over 100,000 casualties.

Clearly guns are much more effective.
Thay work (but the job will get done, regardless).
Our Moslem enemies knew that on 9/11/1.





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 12:56 pm
Quote:
Where in the world is George Zimmerman?
By Graham Winch
September 23, 2013

George Zimmerman is nowhere to be found, according to his estranged wife’s attorney.

Shellie Zimmerman is trying to divorce the man who in July was acquitted in the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, but can’t locate Zimmerman to serve him with legal documents.

Zimmerman’s disappearance comes two weeks after police responded to a "domestic altercation" at a Florida home owned by his father-in-law, David Bryant Dean.

Shellie Zimmerman’s attorney, Kelly Sims, told CNN that he isn’t shocked by Zimmerman's disappearance under the circumstances.

“We don’t know where he is, but that’s neither surprising or unusual. I’m sure when the time is right we will serve him, and there is no indication that Mr. Zimmerman is actively avoiding same. A little space and time between the couple just makes sense,” said Sims...
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/09/23/where-world-george-zimmerman


It wouldn't surprise me if, after this latest incident involving the police, he's checked himself into a psych hospital or some sort of rehab facility.
BillRM
 
  0  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 01:11 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
It wouldn't surprise me if, after this latest incident involving the police, he's checked himself into a psych hospital or some sort of rehab facility.


LOL with all those death threats and other indications that not a few people are wishing to do him harm I would be hard to find myself.

If I was him I would either leave the US or at least move to a state with less then one percent black population to start a new life.

His wife bailing on him did him one hell of a favor as he is now a free agent as with her being on probation she would not be free to move and remain hidden for a year.

Have not been a similar shameful case since Salman Rushdie thanks to such people as Al Sharpton and our President IDing with the hoodlum that Zimmerman needed to killed in self defense.

It I had to picked I would decide that you Firefly are far more in need of the service of a psych hospital then Zimmerman happen to be.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 01:20 pm
@firefly,
TMZ reports:
Quote:
Sources close to George's family tell us they're in contact with him -- and he's safe -- but they don't know exactly where he is. We're told George plans to lay low for the foreseeable future.
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 01:28 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Very very wise of him to lay low and let the haters such as Firefly find other targets for their hate without having him to focus on.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 23 Sep, 2013 01:34 pm
@BillRM,
Well, that quoted article says something different:
Quote:
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsdb24f717.jpg
George Zimmerman's divorce proceedings are on hold, TMZ has learned ... because he's gone Bigfoot on his wife.

 

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