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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 07:07 am
@BillRM,
so then your argument is that cops killing citizens who do nothing wrong is "routine"?
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 07:12 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
o then your argument is that cops killing citizens who do nothing wrong is "routine"?


The decision on the need to use deadly force is done in seconds and can be sadly in error however that normally should not lead to manslaughter charges unless you wish to have no one willing to be police officers.

An running at a police officer is wrong in such a manner as to raise fear in that officer just as carrying a toy gun that look real for that matter in a manner that place the police officer in fear.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 07:23 am
@BillRM,
upsetting a police officer is not a wrong that justifies the state taking my life.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 07:35 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
upsetting a police officer is not a wrong that justifies the state taking my life.


As I said good luck in recruiting police officers at any wage under your theory that they need to be right about a threat to their lives or spend decades in prison themselves if they turn out to be wrong and when that life and death decision for both the police officer and the citizen need to be done in seconds.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 02:58 pm
Quote:
Today, Lake Mary police spokesman Zach Hudson said his agency appeared to be on the verge of pushing the domestic-violence investigation forward. It has found "an agency" that will try to salvage video of the dispute recorded by Shellie Zimmerman on an iPad.

He would not name it.

The domestic violence dispute happened after George Zimmerman showed up and began video-recording Shellie Zimmerman and her father moving out belongings from the home on Sprucewood Road where the couple had lived.

She had moved out and now lives with a relative, according to her attorney, Kelly Sims.

Shellie Zimmerman then began video-recording with her iPad what George Zimmerman was doing.

A camera on the house captured video of George Zimmerman taking the iPad from his estranged wife's hands, banging it against his knee multiple times, prying it open with a knife then tossing the parts into the grass.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-lake-mary-chief-20130918,0,7768595.story
spendius
 
  2  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 05:23 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
A camera on the house captured video of George Zimmerman taking the iPad from his estranged wife's hands, banging it against his knee multiple times, prying it open with a knife then tossing the parts into the grass.


I imagine a fair number of chaps wished they had thought of that.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 06:31 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
A camera on the house captured video of George Zimmerman taking the iPad from his estranged wife's hands, banging it against his knee multiple times, prying it open with a knife then tossing the parts into the grass.


After she hit in the back with it I would presumed......LOL
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 11:46 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
One wonder how many men and women will be willing to serve the nation as police officers if decisions that need to be done in seconds and under pressure to use or not to use deadly force routinely lead to manslaughter charges.
In a fraction of a second; that can determine whether or not u survive.

If there r no police (as u say),
then by default the gun control philosophy is over
and everyone has to DEFEND HIMSELF from predatory violence.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 11:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
so then your argument is that cops killing citizens who do nothing wrong is "routine"?
Whether it is "routine" depends on how ofen it happens, right, Hawkeye ?





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 11:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
upsetting a police officer is not a wrong that justifies the state taking my life.
The killing appears to have been DEFENSIVE, not punitive nor vindictive.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Wed 18 Sep, 2013 11:54 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Quote:
Today, Lake Mary police spokesman Zach Hudson said his agency appeared to be on the verge of pushing the domestic-violence investigation forward. It has found "an agency" that will try to salvage video of the dispute recorded by Shellie Zimmerman on an iPad.

He would not name it.

The domestic violence dispute happened after George Zimmerman showed up and began video-recording Shellie Zimmerman and her father moving out belongings from the home on Sprucewood Road where the couple had lived.

She had moved out and now lives with a relative, according to her attorney, Kelly Sims.

Shellie Zimmerman then began video-recording with her iPad what George Zimmerman was doing.

A camera on the house captured video of George Zimmerman taking the iPad from his estranged wife's hands, banging it against his knee multiple times, prying it open with a knife then tossing the parts into the grass.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-lake-mary-chief-20130918,0,7768595.story

Is Firefly mentally locked into an obsessive vendetta
against Zimmy??





David
BillRM
 
  2  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 12:04 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
If there r no police (as u say),
then by default the gun control philosophy is over
and everyone has to DEFEND HIMSELF from predatory violence.


To me we now have far too many police so they have the time to get involved in far too many of the aspects of the citizens lives and interactions.

Kind of similar to the problem we are now having with the NSA where using the blank check we gave them they had gone far outside of their charter to set up massive spying on the bulk of the planet including US citizens.

The solution to both problems is to reduce their funding and manpower by say 70 percents so they do not have the resources to focus on anything but their core charters.

Hell the damn TSA is so over funded/over staff that instead of focusing on airports security they are running around in swat units annoying people on subway/train platforms and bus terminals and so on.

BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 12:05 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Is Firefly mentally locked into an obsessive vendetta
against Zimmy??


HELL YES.........

An the very idea of spending law enforcement resources on a minor domestic conflict case that occur during a divorce and where no involved party wish to pursue the matter, is another example that support my position that the police are over funded and need to be cut back sharply.

Along with the whole criminal justice system that had resulted in us imprisoning the largest percent of our total population then any other major nation on earth.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 01:21 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
DAVID wrote:
Is Firefly mentally locked into an obsessive vendetta
against Zimmy??


HELL YES.........

An the very idea of spending law enforcement resources on a minor domestic conflict case that occur during a divorce and where no involved party wish to pursue the matter, is another example that support my position that the police are over funded and need to be cut back sharply.

Along with the whole criminal justice system that had resulted in us





imprisoning the largest percent of our total population than any other major nation on earth.
That is based upon an un-Constitutional USURPATION of power
over what the Individual citizen may legally ingest -- a violation of his personal liberty.
That legislation was disloyal to the Constitution and to fundamental Americanism.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 01:28 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
DAVID wrote:
If there r no police (as u say),
then by default the gun control philosophy is over
and everyone has to DEFEND HIMSELF from predatory violence.


To me we now have far too many police so they have the time to get involved in far too many of the aspects of the citizens lives and interactions.

Kind of similar to the problem we are now having with the NSA where using the blank check we gave them they had gone far outside of their charter to set up massive spying on the bulk of the planet including US citizens.

The solution to both problems is to reduce their funding and manpower by say 70 percents so they do not have the resources to focus on anything but their core charters.

Hell the damn TSA is so over funded/over staff that instead of focusing on airports security they are running around in swat units annoying people on subway/train platforms and bus terminals and so on.


I agree with your recommendations.





David
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2013 11:33 am
Here ya go, David, another responsible gun owner in your age cohort acting responsibly with his gun, to preserve himself from ketchup bottles made unopenable by a sadistic wife determined to starve him to death (sarcasm alert);
Quote:
Lawrence Loeffler, 86, is on trial for the shooting death of his 83-year-old wife, Betty Loeffler. Prosecutors say the attack occurred because of family grievances.

BEND, Ore. — An 86-year-old Oregon man on trial for the shooting death of his wife carried out the attack after a series of grievances with his family that prosecutors said included the failure of his stepdaughter to wish him a happy birthday and his complaint that his wife put the lid on the ketchup bottle too tightly.

Deschutes County prosecutor Mary Anderson told jurors about Lawrence Loeffler's complaints during opening statements Wednesday at his murder trial.

Anderson said Loeffler made the criticisms about his family during questioning by officers about the death of 83-year-old Betty Loeffler. The prosecutors said the killing was a calculated act.

Anderson said Lawrence Loeffler took the phone off the hook, retrieved a .25-caliber handgun in the middle of the night from the bedroom where she slept and then "set a trap" to get his wife onto the deck at the back of their house near La Pine, a town of about 1,670 people on the east edge of the Cascade Range in Central Oregon.

BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2013 11:50 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Here ya go, David, another responsible gun owner in your age cohort acting responsibly with his gun, to preserve himself from ketchup bottles made unopenable by a sadistic wife determined to starve him to death (sarcasm alert);


So you would feel better if he had used a hammer or a kitchen knife to do the deal?

In gun free England husbands and wives still offing each other and even old people off their mates.

Quote:
Maplebeck farm death: Husband detained in secure hospital

Peter Thurgarland was obsessed his farmhouse would flood
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Flood fear farmer 'strangled wife'
A farmer who strangled his wife will receive treatment in a psychiatric unit until he is well enough to stand trial.

Peter Thurgarland, 72, who was ruled unfit to stand trial, had admitted killing his wife Julia at their farm in Maplebeck, Nottinghamshire.

The jury at Nottingham Crown Court heard he had been suffering from a "severe mental disturbance" and became "fixated" with flooding.

They unanimously decided he was responsible for the death of his wife.

During the two-day hearing the court was told Mr Thurgarland had dug ditches, built a "fortress" of sandbags and stacked furniture after becoming obsessed with flooding.

'Health deteriorated'
Prosecutor Michael Auty QC said the couple's farm had been flooded in 2007, forcing them to live in a caravan for 18 months.

In the months leading up to the death of 70-year-old Julia, Mr Thurgarland's family said they had grown concerned about his mental state.

He was due to attend a psychiatric assessment on the day of his wife's death, after attempting to smother her with a pillow two weeks earlier.

Farm in Maplebeck
Post-mortem tests showed Julia Thurgarland died from strangulation at the couple's farmhouse.
On 28 December the couple's daughter Jayne O'Connell found her mother on the floor of the living room and her father slumped unconscious after attempting to take his own life.

Paramedics pronounced Mrs Thurgarland dead at the scene. A post-mortem examination found she had died from strangulation.

During police interviews read in court Mr Thurgarland confessed to killing his wife with a piece of cord.

"We were arguing over something. I flipped and strangled her. I don't know what came over me," he said.

"I killed her. I don't know why I did it."

Judge Gregory Dickinson said Mr Thurgarland would now stay in the secure hospital until his health improved. He would then be tried normally.

Det Ch Insp Tony Heydon who led the investigation, said: "The death of Julia Thurgarland at the hands of her husband, Peter, was a tragic family event.

"Nobody could have predicted this sad event but some time after November last year his mental health deteriorated and he took his wife's life and attempted to take his own."
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Fri 20 Sep, 2013 11:57 am
billrm:
Quote:
So you would feel better if he had used a hammer or a kitchen knife to do the deal?


Irrelevant. He didn't, did he? 12,000 people a year in the US don't use a hammer or a knife. 100,000 people don't either when they injure someone. They take the easy way out and use a gun. You can't prevent all killings, obviously, but you CAN prevent a lot of them and make the act much more difficult. But YOU refuse to act sensibly. You, like the NRA, are a murder enabler. He was 86--he probably couldn't have hit her with a hammer anyway--pick it up and he'd fall over from the added weight. You're an idiot, Bill and a repetitious one at that.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Fri 20 Sep, 2013 12:11 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
You're an idiot, Bill and a repetitious one at that.


Amen.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2013 01:38 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
but you CAN prevent a lot of them and make the act much more difficult


NO proof that you can prevent a lot of murders due to lack of firearms at all and as far making it more difficult so what?

If someone is mad enough to shoot their husband or wife then they are mad enough to knife or killed in other ways.

People had been killing other people both in retail and whole scale lots as in whole cities long before gun power had come along.

Wives and husbands are murdering each other in gun free England every day of the week currently.

footnote one: in gun free Japan the suicide rate is double what it is in the US and the US suicide rate is similar to EU nations.

Footnote two: there are states within the US that have as low or lower homicide rates as the UK also. Other factors then guns availability set the homicide rate.

Those states have firearms and yet have gun free homicide rates comparable to England such as New Hampshire,Vermont and Maine.
 

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