The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

@Kolyo,

Quote:

I think it's a political mistake on the part of Democrats to make such a big deal about this trial and about the verdict

I don't see the Democrats, as a party, making "a big deal about this trial and the verdict." I see a President, and an Attorney General, who are black, commenting on it from a personal point of view, rather than making statements on behalf of their political party. And I've seen the same sort of reaction from other black elected officials.

Quote:

This case could hurt us politically because it pits a Hispanic against an African-American.

The black community feels that Trayvon Martin was racially profiled--that his being black, and being racially profiled by Zimmerman, was a contributory factor in the events that led to causing his death, and a factor in the way the police initially handled the case, including the failure to arrest Zimmerman.

But no one is profiling Zimmerman as a Hispanic, or is suggesting that he, in any way, represents Hispanics. And the Hispanic community has not rallied around him, mainly because I don't think they see his ethnicity as a factor in any of this.

There are already some pre-existing tensions between blacks and Hispanics, but I don't think this case will affect those one way or the other. And I don't think this case will affect the Democratic party either.

But you raise a new, interesting slant, on this case.

The "big deal" about this case has been fueled all along by Trayvon Martin's parents, and they are still the main parties continuing to fuel it--they want to get justice for their son. That's why they are not stepping down from the media spotlight, and they will continue to make appearances and statements. Their involvement isn't politically partisan--it's clearly personal.

0 Replies

@Kolyo,

Well one problem is that blacks are using the SYG laws must more then whites by percents.

Footnote Zimmerman used the old self defense law no need for the SYG law in his case.

1 Reply

@Kolyo,

Quote:

wait until the next SYG murder, when the victim is once again black but the killer isn't Hispanic. This case could hurt us politically because it pits a Hispanic against an African-American.

LOL first self defense in not murder..........

Second Zimmerman actions was 100 percents legal without the SYG law.

Third not only is Zimmerman Hispanic but he have black repeat black blood in his veins also by way of his maternal grandparents.

Oh well, I will agree that trying to make this into a civil right case when it was a clear self defense case that have nothing to do with race was unwise in so must as it is hard to hide the facts completely enough to do so.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Wow, 5 replies to what I wrote -- a lot to mull over. Confused

There's one reply I can address immediately, though.

gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
This case could hurt us politically...

Who is "US"?

The people who fill you LOATHING, g. My party, the Democratsss. That "us". Laughing

2 Replies

@Kolyo,

Quote:

The people who fill you LOATHING, g. My party, the Democratsss. That "us"

You mean Zimmerman who is part Latin part black and voted for Obama the two times he ran for president or myself who unless you are far older then I think you are have been voting for Democrats long before you happen to had been alive?

Somehow I do not think you can claims to speak for myself or Zimmerman or even most Democrats.

0 Replies

@Kolyo,

Quote:

The people who fill you LOATHING, g. My party, the Democratsss. That "us". LaughingSignature
Кольо

The thing which strikes me a bit funny here is you signing in Cyrillic characters AND claiming to be a demoKKKrat. Most Russians I ever meet hate the demoKKKrats BECAUSE they hated communism in Russia and they recognize the similarity.

Это как-то мне кажется немного странно ...

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Third not only is Zimmerman Hispanic but he have black repeat black blood in his veins also by way of his maternal grandparents.

Stop trying to claim Zimmerman is black. You sound like a devout KKK member, or Aryan purist, claiming any distant black relative makes him black.

It was an Orlando lawyer who produced a photo of a dark-skinned man he claimed was Zimmerman's great-grandfather on his maternal side. And he claims that Zimmerman's maternal grandmother, the child of that man, was half-black.

I can find no evidence, anywhere, that the Zimmermans have actually spoken out and said that information is true.

Has Zimmerman's mother ever verified that information? Is that, in fact, a photo of her grandfather? Was he black? Why would Zimmerman's mother be so biased against blacks if her grandfather was black and her mother half black? And I already posted information that describes this woman as biased against blacks.

Even if his great-grandfather were black, which is questionable, that wouldn't mean that George Zimmerman doesn't engage in racial profiling, or that he's not racially biased, particularly if he grew up with a mother who is.

Your obsession with Zimmerman's race is absurd. Ethnically, Zimmerman is Hispanic, his mother is Peruvian, and he self-identifies as being Hispanic. But it is not clear how Zimmerman self-identifies with regard to race. In terms of his skin color, Zimmerman appears white. That night, Trayvon Martin identified him to Rachel Jeantel as being white, and the police considered him white as well. And so would I if I had to describe his skin color. And I'm sure you would too if you had to describe him to the police.

The issue is whether Trayvon Martin, who was definitely African-American, and black, was racially profiled that night. The race of the person doing the profiling is irrelevant--it wouldn't have been any better if he had been similarly profiled by another African-American. Where it might matter, given the ugly racial history of our country, is that a black kid might have a different reaction if a stranger following him in the dark, for no apparent reason, appears white rather than some other skin color--different alarm bells go off for that kid, particularly if he lives in the South. And Martin did describe Zimmerman as a "creepy ass white cracker," which has a certain meaning in the South.

So absolutely nothing you are saying in any way "proves" Zimmerman is not a racist, or that he didn't racially profile Trayvon Martin that night. He may well have profiled Martin that night, because of his skin color, and yet not be a flaming racist. Bias operates in all sorts of ways.

Quote:

it was a clear self defense case...

No it wasn't a clear self-defense case, and that's not even what the verdict reflects. And, when the jury first began deliberating, half of the jurors were in favor of manslaughter or second degree murder--meaning self-defense was not at all clear cut. The way the law is written in Florida, the jurors had to give him the benefit of the doubt if there was any possibility he acted because he genuinely feared great harm. That's definitely not "clear self-defense".

You appear not to have paid attention to anything in the prosecution's case. They may not have done a great job presenting their evidence, and they literally let the defense get away with murder, but they presented plenty of evidence pointing to Zimmerman's guilt--certainly of manslaughter. Pretending that evidence isn't there doesn't make it go away, BillRM. Like the police photos taken the night of the shooting that clearly show Zimmerman wasn't "beaten-up" in any way, he sustained very minor injuries, and there was none of Zimmerman's blood on Trayvon Martin's hands, to support Zimmerman's story that those hands were placed over his bloody nose and mouth. And, the last thing Rachel Jeantel heard Martin say--to Zimmerman--was, "Get off me," suggesting that what followed was a defensive reaction by Martin, and not an "attack" of any sort, as you keep trying to claim.

The vague and poorly written self-defense laws in Florida allowed Zimmerman to get off, not any lack of evidence against him.

The prosecution had plenty of evidence to indicate this was not "a clear self defense case". You seem to have missed the trial.

Even Zimmerman now realizes he profiled and followed an innocent kid. Had he known Trayvon Martin was a guest in that housing complex, he would have continued driving to Target that night without stopping--he wouldn't have found his behavior "suspicious" at all. Zimmerman's reaction was to a young black male he thought didn't belong in that community, and that made everything Martin did seem suspect to him. Even the chief investigator on this case said, on the witness stand, that Martin's behavior would not have seem suspicious to him, if he had seen him. But Zimmerman was on the alert, particularly for black males, who didn't look like they belonged there. So, he made a tragic error, and profiled an innocent kid, who did belong there, and who was just taking his time walking home and yakking on his cell phone.

You're the one who can't deal with reality. Your attempts to complete whitewash Zimmerman get more and more ludicrous and outlandish.

The reality of the verdict...

http://media.cagle.com/128/2013/07/16/134679_600.jpg

0 Replies

Back again Firefly?

More charges from some make up woman that Zimmerman is a secret devil worshiper perhaps?

Let see you already posted that Zimmerman is a child sexual abuser as well as his whole mixed family are proud racists?

By the way how does that work in a mixed race family Firefly where all branches have at least a small amount of black blood in their veins?

You do not invited the family members to Thanksgiving diners that have more then twenty percents black blood perhaps?

It is a shame that the news first reported that a white man had killed a poor black child and people like you jumped on it with great joy without feeling the needs to check out the facts.

Oh then they move it from a white man to a white Hispanic man whatever that means.

Direct from northern Spain perhaps?

Quote:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/07/white_hispanic_and_other_media_creations_on_race.html

Why was Zimmerman being labeled a "White Hispanic?" From day one, the mainstream media had rabid desire to attach "White" to his heritage, as if being "White" triggered the instinct to kill a black teen-and we wouldn't want to suggest that any ethnic group is predisposed to particular behaviors, now would we? Merely being Hispanic did not fit the narrative. There had to be more to Zimmerman's makeup which compelled him to kill Trayvon Martin. The easy, surface-level answer was that Zimmerman "looked white," and was therefore "White." Personally, I thought he looked more like a Starbucks caffé latte sans sprinkles, but I digress. Subsequent reports clarified that he was of mixed ancestry, and he morphed into a "White Hispanic."
I've never met a Hispanic person that defined him or herself as being a "White" or "Black" Hispanic. They tend to call themselves Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, etc., the country of their not-too-distant-past origin. My nephew, whose mom (my sister) is "White" by way of a primarily German ancestry, and whose dad is Puerto Rican, might be considered a "White Hispanic" too, unless it turns out that his dad has black ancestry in his Puerto Rican makeup. Then my nephew would become a "White-Black-Hispanic-American." Try saying that three times fast.
I used to mentor a young lady who is Puerto Rican as well. Is she "White Hispanic?" She has very light skin; she is as white as me, and believe you me, I'm no "White Hispanic;" I'm just plain old white, with a small 'w.' Her mom and younger sister are considerably darker than she is. Are the dark-skinned family members "Black Hispanic?" Come to think about it, George Zimmerman's skin color looks somewhere in between my little friends' color and her families' color. So is Zimmerman a "White-Black-Hispanic-American" too? Do we have it figured out yet? Can I finish my nachos?
Hispanics are a multi-racial, multi-ethnic group of people. The term "Hispanic" is a generic term from the 1970's, which is used to describe persons now in the U.S. whose origins were from Spanish-speaking countries in Central and South America, and the Caribbean. For many Hispanics, "White"-namely Spanish/European ancestry-may already a significant part of their ethnic makeup. Except for those that have a lot of Moorish ancestry; they may or may not be "White," depending on how you view the ancient Moors. In race politics, opinion and feelings are what count.
This would probably exclude the Brazilians, as they are Portuguese. Then again, Portugal is a part of the Iberian peninsula, so maybe they count as Hispanic too? Wait, wait, wait, I know for certain we can exclude the Basques from being Hispanic; they are Celtic, like the Irish, but without the red hair and freckles. Come to think about it, Peruvians have a lot of Japanese and Chinese ancestry. If we're spinning the ethnic color wheel and defining Hispanics as being "White" or "Black," would Peruvians be "Yellow" Hispanics? Zimmerman's mother was from Peru; is he actually a "White Yellow Hispanic?" Is that going to be considered racist? Should we just ignore the Peruvians?
Remember President Clinton? Clinton used to be our first black president. People felt he was black. So Clinton was the first black president even though genetically he has no African ancestry, and then poof! magically, he was no longer black once Obama is elected. Oh, except that until Obama actually won, some black leaders didn't consider him to be "black enough." After winning, he became our first "Black president," when in fact he is our first biracial president, which would make him "White Black," or is he a "Black White?" Let's not be dragged down by facts. Feelings are what define us genetically, right?
The deeper answer as to why George Zimmerman was labeled as "White Hispanic," is simple. There are people in this country-the mainstream media, the left-leaning politicians, the Jesse Jacksons-that are invested in the politics of race and make their determinations of the outcome of any situation based upon what they need that person to be, not who they are or what they actually did. Regardless of Zimmerman's guilt, they needed him to be a pre-defined caricature. It fits the political game that they play. It also fits their agenda that white people need to pay for past transgressions, which, given the socialist-leanings of the race hustlers, regarding people as members of groups versus individuals is par for the course. There is this sense among the race hustlers of needing to "even the score." Well, score one for the race hustlers when O.J. got off for killing a white woman, but they did not win the battle.
Speaking of socialists, the Nazis used to measure the shapes of heads and noses to determine a person's racial subgroup and assigned racial labels based upon the physical traits. It suited their end purpose. It also should be noted that the Nazis were known for giving people a "pass." I guess despite the "Hispanic" half of his makeup, Zimmerman didn't qualify for a pass this time around.

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1 Reply

@BillRM,

You allegedly worked as a Census taker. Did you bother to read the U.S. Census form?

It asked people who consider themselves Hispanic to also identify their racial group. I believe that, in the last Census, a majority identified as white--which actually increased the "white population" in this country.

There are Hispanics who are white, and not racially mixed, there are Hispanics who certainly appear white, and others who appear brown, and some appear black, and I'm sure there are a few other skin tones as well.

And yes, to a great extent, it does depend on appearance. The police described Zimmerman as white, and, more importantly, he looked white to his victim, Trayvon Martin.

And the reason that "white Hispanic" even got into the description of Zimmerman was because he was originally considered simply "white"--based, I think on the police description of him. Some people even thought he was Jewish when his name first became public because Zimmerman sounded like a Jewish name. It was probably Zimmerman who corrected it eventually and identified himself as being Hispanic--he had enough problems without having people think of him as Jewish. Laughing

. So the Hispanic got tacked on to the "white" part of his description, after this story was already in the media, not the other way around.

And face it, the man looks white. And you don't know for a fact that he has any black ancestry. Even if that lawyer's story were true, that he had a black great-grandfather, and a half-black grandmother, that would make him what 1/8th, or even less, black? Rolling Eyes

And Zimmerman's mother has never verified that was a photo of her grandfather.

This is your crazy obsession with Zimmerman's race. You've gone as far as to claim, "Zimmerman is no more white than Obama." Now, no way is that statement true. You're disconnected from reality.

And Zimmerman's racial background has absolutely nothing to do with whether he racially profiled Trayvon Martin.

Quote:

Let see you already posted that Zimmerman is a child sexual abuser as well as his whole mixed family are proud racists?

And, it was Zimmerman's cousin--a member of his family--who claimed he sexually molested her for over 10 years, beginning when she was six, and she was also the one who said that Zimmerman's mother was openly and "proudly" racist in her thinking.

That women probably knows that family, and Zimmerman, a lot better than you do, BillRM--she's talking about her own family.

And Zimmerman does not come from "a whole mixed family"--is the paternal side of his family anything but white? And the maternal side of his family might possibly include a half-black grandmother--meaning his three of his grandparents were white, and the fourth was half-white. That doesn't sound like "a whole mixed family--it's not very mixed at all, in terms of racial bloodlines.

The extent of denial you engage in regarding Zimmerman really is astonishing--you disregard known facts in order to promote distorted fantasies--why are you so unable to view him, or this legal case, with any degree of objectivity or balance, or connection to reality. You're so off base, and getting even more so, you're moving into the delusional territory of gunga and oralloy.

And with supporters like you, and gunga, and oralloy, you make Zimmerman seem even more racist because he becomes associated with the crap you keep putting forward. None of you are doing the man a favor with that. Frank Apisa was right--the racist thinking in this thread is probably much worse than anything Zimmerman engaged in.

You seem unable to be honest about anything. I love the way you keep saying you have me on "ignore". I wish you would put me on "ignore".

1 Reply

@firefly,

He's supposed to have me on ignore too. Given his language skills it's remarkable he's got that far.

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

You never answered my question. Are you saying it's OK to joke about lynching?

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

The greatest number of SYG cases seem to involve decent blacks
defending themselves from gangster blacks like Trayvon Martin, which is not surprising given the statistics for black crime.

Question is, why does the idea of those people being able to defend themselves bother you??

I believe that the answer is
that the Roosevelt-Kennedy liberals object philosophically
in that thay want the Individual citizen to be dependent FOR HIS EXISTENCE
upon the collective and its henchman, government,
rather than be self-reliant. These r 2 alternative paradigms:
one wherein the citizen is STRONG, proudly selfish and independent
and the other wherein he is docile, humble, groveling, compliant with his paternal-surrogate: government.

These r 2 very, very different Americas; opposites of one another.

I opt for personal freedom and hedonism.

We shud inscribe on every dollar bill:
"Every man for himself and let the devil take the hindmost."

David

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You never answered my question.
Are you saying it's OK to joke about lynching?

Altho the question was not addressed to me,
I 'd like to speak up in support of liberty, of free speech and against liberalism.

FOR THE RECORD:
It is indeed OK to joke about lynching.
I have never (yet) been lynched, but if that ever happens,
everyone is more than welcome to joke about it.
I might laff at it myself (except for being dead).

I have already been (unsuccessfully) shot at;
u r all invited to joke about that; at the time, I found some mild humor in it.

I am eager to be heard in opposition to political correctness.

David

1 Reply

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3051180/posts?page=17#17

Quote:

I hope that the idiots [Trayvon Wessel's parents] go for the civil suit.

Then the REAL trayvon will come out and mama and daddy will have some splaining to do.

Like why wasn't the kid punished for being kicked out of school. He was also kicked out of mamas house and sent to live with daddy and his girl friend. Why didn't the school call the police upon finding stolen items and burglary tools in his locker?

There will be NO Civil Suit, they know it, but that won't stop them form whining and complaining about every body and every thing, except themselves. They raised a undisciplined punk. . .Not the choir boy the LSM keeps trying to portray him.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I believe that the answer is that the Roosevelt-Kennedy liberals object philosophically in that thay want the Individual citizen to be dependent FOR HIS EXISTENCE upon the collective and its henchman, government, rather than be self-reliant.

Today's dems fit that description for sure. JFK would certainly be a Republican in today's world (that "Ask not what your country can do for you" thing would go over like a lead baloon with today's dems). FDR I'm not sure of but I have to suspect he'd not be able to stomach toay's demoKKKrats.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

FOR THE RECORD:
It is indeed OK to joke about lynching.

You probably wouldn't feel the same if you'd watched your parents being lynched.

You wouldn't be affected anyway, you're white.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

Quote:

You probably wouldn't feel the same if you'd watched your parents being lynched.

You wouldn't be affected anyway, you're white.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/even-media-can-no-longer-ignore-black-violence/

Quote:

(Editor’s note: Colin Flaherty has done more reporting than any other journalist on what appears to be a nationwide trend of skyrocketing black-on-white crime, violence and abuse. WND features these reports to counterbalance the virtual blackout by the rest of the media due to their concerns that reporting such incidents would be inflammatory or even racist. WND considers it racist not to report racial abuse solely because of the skin color of the perpetrators or victims.) Videos linked or embedded may contain foul language and violence.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/even-media-can-no-longer-ignore-black-violence/#U0EUiIlE0YKVhr8G.99

Quote:

WND RELATED STORIES
Black man in hoodie stabs white girl 11 times

Black mob leaves waiter with broken jaw

Race violence alarms, before Zimmerman verdict

Black mobs go 'bang' on July 4th

Kaboom! Now black mobs kill 4th of July

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Mall maul nothing much, authorities report

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Bike trail builds reputation for mob attacks

Woman sics dogs on reporter

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25-year-old victim loses Knockout Game

TV-smashing, rock hurling 'candlelight vigil'

It's 'scuffle' with dozens of people, guns

Help 'tending wounds' sought for black attackers

Sanford healing 1 year after Trayvon's death?

Jawdropper: Black mob meets 'gay' beauty pageant

TV anchor: 'Race-baiters' behind black-mob claims

'Knockout Game' perp shot, killed

70 officers needed to disperse 'food fight' rioters

College football stars and the Knockout Game

Detroit facing surge of black violence

Black mob takes over neighborhood, again

Video: Black mob beats man until skull breaks

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You're white, you're guilty, you're dead!

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Deck the halls, and your fellow shopper, too

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Race-based Knockout Game meets the Moms

'We're looking at the background of the victim'

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Heisman hopes hit by black-mob attack

Black mob picks on 'The Wrong Guy'

'Knockout Games' a hit with black mobs

Black mob violence blamed on white kids drinking

Black mob hijacks store: 'We own this'

Attempted robbery that almost became a race riot

Riots, denials and black mobs in Flint

Black mob violence and the media silence

Brand-new surge in black-mob violence

The race riot ... and the media cover-up

Black commentators sound off on racial violence

Mighty Salon and little old me

See no evil: Racial violence underreported

'Perfect storm' of black violence on 'gays'

2nd Amendment proves valid defense against black gangs

Black mobs now have soundtrack for violence

Black mobs' Knockout Game raising alarms

Blogger: Why don't blacks behave?

Judge to black perps: What are you doing with your lives?

Black mob violence hits Nordstrom

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/even-media-can-no-longer-ignore-black-violence/#U0EUiIlE0YKVhr8G.99

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@gungasnake,

DAVID wrote:

I believe that the answer is that the Roosevelt-Kennedy liberals object philosophically
in that thay want the Individual citizen to be dependent FOR HIS EXISTENCE
upon the collective and its henchman, government, rather than be self-reliant.

gungasnake wrote:

Today's dems fit that description for sure.
JFK would certainly be a Republican in today's world

From that notion, I must dissent, with all respect.
I have not forgotten that leftist nightmare
after he stole the election of 1960, night after night on the news.
Kennedy was very left. He 'd have kissed stalin, if he cud.

gungasnake wrote:

(that "Ask not what your country can do for you"
thing would go over like a lead baloon with today's dems).

That is antithetical to basic Americanism.
It advocates exaltation of collectivism above Individualism.
It advocates making America a less free country, deferring to collectivism.
It (falsely) implies that the citizen owes labor to the collective.
I deem that and the kennedys contemptible, despicable and very anti-American.

David

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

FOR THE RECORD:
It is indeed OK to joke about lynching.

izzythepush wrote:

You probably wouldn't feel the same
if you'd watched your parents being lynched.

No, Izzy; the remedy for that wud not be CENSORSHIP!
That remedy wud be vindictive counter-lynching
(unless government resolved the issue satisfactorily).

The lynchees wud be more than welcome
to laff n joke all thay want, while thay watch us prepare the nooses.
We can join in the light-hearted frivolity of the moment too!

izzythepush wrote:

You wouldn't be affected anyway, you're white.

A lot of whites have been lynched,
especially in pre-judicial regions of America in the 18OOs.

David

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Well one problem is that blacks are using the SYG laws must more then whites by percents.

Footnote Zimmerman used the old self defense law no need for the SYG law in his case.

Which shows nothing. It could be because whites are given the benefit of the doubt and the police don't charge them with crimes requiring them to resort to SYG. Or it could be because blacks are more likely to be attacked by someone committing a felony.

2 Replies

The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

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