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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jul, 2013 05:26 pm
Part of the problem is education and the NEA, and another big part of the problem is money in crime, particularly drugs. It would be fairly easy to fix a society so that there was all but no money in any sort of crime.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jul, 2013 06:14 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
problem is money in crime, particularly drugs. It would be fairly easy to fix a society so that there was all but no money in any sort of crime.


Sure tens of billions or more every year going into the war on drugs. The drugs trade that are fueling the intercity gangs among other bad things such as ruining Mexico as a nation.

An yet I bet not being a drug user or being around drugs users I still could get into my car and picked up any common street drug faster then I could drive to Walmart for a bottle of tylenol.

We should just legalize most drugs and tax and control them and end the throwing a ways of billions directly and indirectly and reduce our prison population by letting out all the non-violence prisoners that was jail for drugs.
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Sun 21 Jul, 2013 06:29 pm
@BillRM,
DAVID wrote:
don't believe that blacks who defend themselves
will have anything to worry about. Sharpton will leave them alone.
BillRM wrote:


I remember the case of a racial and random attack on a white teenager by a group of blacks teenagers and the leader of the attackers have a history of violence including a female family member so the judge throw the book at him with a hate crime rider on the sentence.

Sharpton went mad and have at least ten thousand protectors coming into a small town of a few thousands over this "unfair" sentencing.

Oh and with tee shirts demanding the freeing of the "can not think of the name of the town" seven.

Seven young men who attacked another young man from behind and knocking him out for the soul reason of his skin color.
Was the sentence appealed?
Did the sentence remain intact ?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Sun 21 Jul, 2013 06:37 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
We should just legalize most drugs and tax and control them and end the throwing a ways of billions directly and indirectly
and reduce our prison population by letting out all the non-violence prisoners that was jail for drugs.
Yes; that means restore the status quo ante, as of the early 1900s.
What we eat, drink or inject into ourselves is none of government 's
business, and it was never granted authority to interfere in that.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Sun 21 Jul, 2013 06:45 pm
@spendius,

Quote:
What would you do under the same circumstances?
spendius wrote:
What we whites have done many times before I imagine. Crime in devastating circumstances is not a monopoly of any racial group. The devastating circumstances cause the crime and thus those who cause such circumstances cause the crime and get well paid for doing so.
Tell us, Spendius: what is the English philosophy qua what to do,
if someone is slamming your head against the English street ?
Grab a gun and shoot him ?
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  2  
Sun 21 Jul, 2013 08:32 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
The real problem is economic. The drugs one of these idiots would use in a day under rational circumstances would cost a dollar; that would simply present no scope for crime or criminals. Under present circumstances that dollar's worth of drugs is costing the user $300 a day and since that guy is dealing with a 10% fence, he's having to commit $3000 worth of crime to buy that dollar's worth of drugs. In other words, a dollar's worth of chemicals has been converted into $3000 worth of crime, times the number of those idiots out there, times 365 days per year, all through the magic of stupid and evil laws. No nation on Earth could afford that forever.

A rational set of drug laws would:

  • Legalize marijuana and all its derivatives and anything else demonstrably no
    more harmful than booze on the same basis as booze.
  • Declare that heroine, crack cocaine, and other highly addictive substances
    would never be legally sold on the streets, but that those addicted could shoot
    up at government centers for the fifty-cent cost of producing the stuff, i.e.
    take every dime out of that business for criminals.
  • Provide a lifetime in prison for selling LSD, PCP, and other Jeckyl/Hyde
    formulas.
  • Same for anybody selling any kind of drugs to kids.


Do all of that, and the drug problem and 70% of all urban crime will vanish
within two years.

That would be an ideal solution of course. You're correct in noting that we could simply legalize it all and we'd be better off than we are.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sun 21 Jul, 2013 09:38 pm
@gungasnake,
What I love is that in Florida and many other states you need a doctor prescription to get hypodermic needles so all the intravenous drugs users are a public health hazard for every blood borne pathogens existing including HIV.

Under the crazy theory I guess that they will not find old needles to reused and therefore not do intravenous drugs.
gungasnake
 
  3  
Sun 21 Jul, 2013 09:46 pm
@BillRM,
The magic of stupid laws.....

Douglas MacArthur refused to promulgate any sort of a law or regulation forbidding US servicemen from fraternizing with Japanese women during the occupation of Japan, noting that stupid and/or unenforceable laws compromised respect for the law in general. That seems to be a good guiding principle for law makers to keep in mind.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 12:28 am
@Rockhead,
Rockhead wrote:
and you wonder why nobody takes you seriously except the fringe folk...

Why do you freaks always think that everyone who disagrees with you are the ones who are on the fringe?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 05:04 am
@timur,
Quote:
What the picture of Trayvon Martin shows was a child who was shot in the chest, while clutching a paper bag in his left hand. What the picture shows is that Trayvon Martin was clutching a paper bag. Clutching it as he allegedly grasped George’s head. Clutching it as he allegedly grappled for George’s gun.

The article is lying. Whether or not there was anything in his left hand, it certainly is not visible in the picture (which obscures his left hand behind his leg).


I'm curious though, was Trayvon wearing an Obama button? Or is that some other kind of button? Did someone place the button over the gunshot wound for some reason before taking the picture?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 05:05 am
@timur,
timur wrote:
You don't seem to be able to cope with the hundreds of cases where the jury found the indicted guilty and later on new evidence proved them wrong..

You're the one who is arguing that someone should have been convicted when there is no evidence of their guilt. Perhaps it is you who is at odds with that particular lesson.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 09:30 am
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r53/icebear46/lean_zps08bf3934.jpg
gungasnake
 
  1  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 09:57 am
There's a school of thought which sees the prosecution having thrown this case... Best statement of that position I've seen is this:

http://www.nola.com/opinions/index.ssf/2013/07/did_george_zimmermans_prosecut.html
firefly
 
  0  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 10:33 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

You're the one who is arguing that someone should have been convicted when there is no evidence of their guilt.

There was plenty of evidence of Zimmerman's guilt in terms of manslaughter, and in a great many other states he most likely would have been convicted of manslaughter. His reckless and impulsive behaviors created the conditions for Martin's death and he caused the provocation for the final altercation. In most states, that's manslaughter.

What helped Zimmerman avoid conviction were Florida's loosely written and flawed self-defense laws. They gave him the benefit of the doubt if there was any possibility he believed he was in imminent danger of great bodily harm. The jurors were also given instructions for Stand Your Ground, which seems to have further confused them because this was not a SYG case, yet they seem to have possibly inappropriately applied SYG in reaching their decision, judging by the comments of the one juror who has spoken out. She also said there were jurors who wanted to convict Zimmerman of something, because they felt he was guilty of bringing about Martin's death, but they couldn't because of the vague way the Florida self-defense laws are written, and she urged that these laws be changed.

The jurors made the best decision they could, given those self-defense laws, but that doesn't mean there wasn't evidence also pointing to Zimmerman's guilt. He's hardly blameless or "innocent" regarding this death.

If he had stayed in his car that night, as a neighborhood watch should do, rather than trailing his "suspect", none of this would have happened. If he had left his gun in his car, since neighborhood watch volunteers are not supposed to be armed, this death would not have happened.

Martin was on his way home to watch an NBA basketball game on TV, and he was walking around yakking on his phone until the game started. The following day he was returning to Miami with his father. He was minding his own business, not bothering anyone, not doing anything at all criminal, until Zimmerman decided, on the basis of his own erroneous racial profiling, that this middle class high school kid was a criminal "suspect"--and everything that followed from that was caused by Zimmerman's tragic error in judgment. He stalked, frightened, and wound up killing, someone who belonged in that community he was allegedly "protecting" because he was impulsive and reckless in his actions.

Florida law seemingly allowed the jurors to separate all of Zimmerman's actions that led to, and caused, an altercation from the immediate reason he fired his gun--something that the laws of a great many other states would not allow. In a great many other states, Zimmerman also would have been found guilty of using excessive force, since his actual injuries were minor, his victim was unarmed, and the victim might well have been acting in his own self-defense, given the way Zimmerman had followed him, without ever identifying himself or his motives. Zimmerman, who had considerable formal fight training at a gym, seems to have made no attempt to fight back with equal force, he just used his gun.

Zimmerman didn't even scratch Trayvon Martin in self-defense, he just shot him in the heart. And at 5'11" and 158 pounds, Martin was not an overly physically imposing opponent for Zimmerman, who's only about an inch shorter, and who outweighed Martin by 50+ pounds at that time. Zimmerman had no objectively compelling need to use lethal force, his claims of imminent fears of great harm were all subjective, possibly exaggerated, and not really supported by objective evidence.

This is how George Zimmerman looked after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
http://prommanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/george-zimmerman-300x167.jpg
http://www.trbimg.com/img-519ccd82/turbine/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-images-20130522-004/599/599x398
He was not "beaten up", he was punched once in the nose, and his nose does not appear to even be fractured, the midline is straight. He had two tiny abrasions (like a half inch) on the back of his head--no bruising, no swelling, no goose-eggs, on the back of his head to suggest any repeated "pounding", just some dried blood streaks from his two little scrapes. He was nowhere near an imminent threat to his life when he fired that shot into Martin.

Revising those flawed Florida self-defense laws, that allowed Zimmerman to escape the consequences of his own actions in causing a death, should be the next step on the agenda. And that's the direction the protests are moving in.

Zimmerman received due process, and he was acquitted, but Trayvon Martin did not receive justice.
parados
 
  1  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 11:01 am
@BillRM,
Dang Bill, first you claim the FBI is responsible for investigating online threats.
Then you post an anecdote that shows local authorities were the ones that investigated online threats.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 11:05 am
@firefly,
most of our laws are loosely worded, on purpose, which usually works to promote government oppression.
BillRM
 
  0  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 11:08 am
@parados,
Quote:
Dang Bill, your anecdote shows it isn't the FBI that investigates online threats as you just claimed was entirely responsible for investigating those threats.


Sorry but both local and federal laws cover online threats just as both local and Federal laws cover child porn cases, however when threats are issue where no one have a clue to begin with where the person issuing the threat happen to located it is indeed the FBI who are the ones who does the investigation.

The Federal government may or may not turn over a case for local prosecution once the matter of location is settle.

Silly person............
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 11:13 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
most of our laws are loosely worded, on purpose, which usually works to promote government oppression.

No, those Florida self-defense laws are the result of heavy lobbying by the gun manufacturers and the NRA. Just watch who will fight any attempt to get those laws changed, revised, or repealed.

Most laws are quite precisely worded.

They are also voted into effect by duly elected representatives of the people, so your constant mantra of "government oppression" in that regard is nonsense.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 11:45 am
Zimmerman once more risking his own welfare to serve his fellow citizens.


Quote:


http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue/story?id=19735432


MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC) and ALEXIS SHAW (@ashaw109)
July 22, 2013
George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue someone who was trapped in an overturned truck, police said today.

Sanford Police Department Capt. Jim McAuliffe told ABC News that Zimmerman "pulled an individual from a truck that had rolled over" at the intersection of a Florida highway last week.

The crash occurred at the intersection of I-4 and route 417, police said. The crash site is less than a mile from where he shot Martin.

It's the first known sighting of Zimmerman since he left the courtroom following his acquittal last week on murder charges for the death of Martin. Zimmerman, 29, shot and killed Martin, 17, in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26, 2012. The jury determined that Zimmerman shot Martin in self-defense.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 22 Jul, 2013 12:07 pm
@BillRM,
Was that guy a black man?
 

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