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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 04:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
David, a CLUE FOR YOU. I don't want your respect. NEVER.


NOBODY
respects a liar....

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 04:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
David, a CLUE FOR YOU. I don't want your respect. NEVER.
C. I.: I don't believe u.



U are trying un-successfully, to save face.





David
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 04:29 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Save face from you? ROFLMAO
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 04:44 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Do you claim not to read cursive at all, and also claim to write letters in what would have to seem a foreign language to you?

When I was in high school, my best friend and I would often write letters for an elderly woman who could not read or write cursive. The woman, an immigrant, was able to print in a language other than English, but, even in printing the characters of that language, her fine motor coordination was poor and her handwriting was not always legible. When she received letters written in cursive, she needed us to read them to her. She had no problems understanding or speaking English, or other languages. And she could print in English if she had to.

So, this woman would dictate her letters to us, and we would take them down verbatim, in cursive, without altering them in any way. They were her letters--she authored them. We would read the letters back to her, and, if there were any changes or corrections, she made them. It would have been foolish to say they weren't her letters in every way, except for the handwriting.

So I don't find it all that odd that Rachel Jeantel couldn't read cursive but sent a letter written in cursive to Martin's mother.

Also, I read this--something I also just heard another professor discussing on CNN
Quote:
Linguists who study African American Vernacular English (AAVE) — also called Ebonics — recognize all the features in Rachel Jeantel’s speech, including John Rickford, a professor of linguistics at Stanford University...

Khalil Gibran Muhammed, the director of the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture at The New York Public Library, said that scrutinizing Jeantel’s language is really about class and power.

She might be subjected to even higher scrutiny by African-Americans, Muhammed said, because she is expected to be representing the black community. And speaking “proper” English is bound up with black respectability.

“She [Jeantel] used a lot of the classic features of African-American English, which you can find spoken especially by working-class African-Americans almost every day. I don’t think most of these caused active problems of understanding in the courtroom, But I think they probably affected the jury’s and the public’s ability to respect and believe her testimony and relate to her. Relatability is very important.”

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/06/28/n-word-language


The nature of that letter that Jeantel sent to Martin's mother was very sensitive and important to Jeantel, because it was about the death of that woman's son. Jeantel may have wanted it to be not only a very "proper" letter, in terms of the words/speech used (i.e. written in proper English, not African-American English), but she may have wanted it to look like a "proper" letter by having it written in cursive--and for that she needed help.

Trayvon Martin's mother acts and sounds like a very "proper" African-American woman, and Jeantel doesn't, and that may have also affected Jeantel's decisions about that letter, the language in it, how it was written, etc.--Jeantel might have been concerned about offending this "proper" woman, even inadvertently with her letter.

In court, that first day, Jeantel obviously wasn't concerned with appearing "proper". She was actually refreshingly natural. She conducted herself more appropriately the next day. I found her authentic and credible. But I'm familiar with young people who sound and act like Jeantel. I have no idea how she affected the jurors.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:07 pm
Trayvon medical report:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3037508/posts

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/2700000/MARIJUANA-marijuana-2769071-300-300.gif
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:08 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
Not to labor the point forever, but she didn't say she couldn't read that particular letter she allegedly wrote herself.
She said she couldn't read cursive.
That's like saying I write German with no problem; I simply can't read German.
Yes. She has admitted to lying under oath.
If u know that a person has lied to u,
then u know that person lies to u.

Is there any reason to believe
what he has to say in the future (without corroboration) ??





David
firefly
 
  3  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:13 pm
@gungasnake,
Can we wait until the Medical Examiner testifies.

This thread is to follow the trial as it progresses.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:16 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Yes. She has admitted to lying under oath.

What exactly did Rachel Jeantel admit to regarding that letter?

Was she the author of the letter or not?

When did she lie under oath? What was the lie about? And when did she admit to that lie?

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:38 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
If u know that a person has lied to u,
then u know that person lies to u.

Is there any reason to believe
what he has to say in the future (without corroboration) ??


Precisely, Om.

Oh yeah, I'll get back to you right away. I have to go to the dentist. Yeah, soon, it'll be soon. Uh-huh, right after my aunt's funeral. ... .
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:38 pm
DrewDad
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:42 pm
@gungasnake,
No racism there. Nope. No sirree. Please ignore Gunga's sheet and pointy hat.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:48 pm
@DrewDad,
Try watching the video, fool, it's pretty interesting...
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:48 pm
@DrewDad,
The man speaking is black.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:48 pm
@firefly,
Now, is there testimony or evidence to the effect that the letter she says she wrote was written to someone else at her direction? I do not at all doubt that she really didn't write it; I'm asking about the provenance. I do not recall that information on this thread,
firefly
 
  3  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 05:49 pm
@gungasnake,
gunga, this thread is to discuss the progress of the trial--the actual trial.

Could you please try to stick to that? There are other threads about this case--including some you started--so post whatever you want to in those threads, but, please, let this one remain a discussion of the actual trial as it unfolds.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 06:01 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Now, is there testimony or evidence to the effect that the letter she says she wrote was written to someone else at her direction?

I don't recall her being questioned about that on the stand, roger.

It was a very embarrassing/humiliating moment for her when she said she couldn't read cursive, and the defense attorney may have been thrown off guard by that admission and backed off pursuing the issue of whose penmanship that was. He wasn't questioning the fact she authored the letter, as I recall, he was questioning why certain words were omitted from it, I think.

I was left with the impression that she authored the letter, but someone else probably wrote it out for her in cursive. It really wasn't an important or relevant issue for West to have pursued with her. And, if he had pursued it, he might have risked prolonging her humiliating moment, looking like he was being mean to do that, and generated sympathy for her with the jury.

Maybe someone else has a clearer or better or different recollection of that portion of her testimony than I do.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 06:06 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
It really wasn't an important or relevant issue for West to have pursued with her.


I think it will play an important part in the defense 's summation. It could be as important an issue as "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit"
People don't do complex analyses when a "reasonable doubt" is forwarded by the prosecutions own witnesses.
firefly
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 06:17 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
I think it will play an important part in the defense 's summation.

Why? There was no issue about whether she authored the letter--the defense didn't challenge that, as I recall. What difference does it make whose penmanship that was? They can't use it to discredit her because I don't think she claimed the penmanship was hers, and they didn't ask her if someone else wrote it for her, as I recall.

In fact, it's more important to the defense that she be seen as the author of that letter. Which would be another reason they didn't pursue who actually wrote it out for her.

Jeantel's most important testimony was about that last phone call with Martin.

The letter was brought in as evidence mainly to relate its contents to her testimony about the phone conversation and to other statements she had previously given before the trial about that conversation. As I recall, the letter did not contain details, or words, that subsequently popped up in her later statements about the last phone conversation with Martin, and that she also included in her testimony at trial about the conversation. So the issue was really why she had omitted those details before, in that letter. Whose handwriting the letter was in was completely unimportant. Both sides considered Jeantel the author of the letter.

At least, that's how I recall it.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 06:19 pm
@farmerman,
Im amazed how there seem to be camps of the verdict. I know that they are politically engaged but why not view the trial without all that baggage.
I went into this thinking that the state had a slam dunk case but now, after reading some of the transcript material, the defense is doing a really good job for its client, and the state? Not so much.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 30 Jun, 2013 06:19 pm
@farmerman,
I'm not sure how important this issue will be relative to all the other witnesses and information gathered by the jury.

I'm gonna wait for further witnesses and information before attempting to arrive at any conclusion about this case.
 

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