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To Voters, Bush's Post-9/11 Record Trumps Pre-9/11

 
 
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 03:28 pm
To Voters, Bush's Post-9/11 Record Trumps Pre-9/11
By Mort Kondracke

They call it "the ultimate fortress" - President Bush's reputation for fighting terrorism - and, after Bush aides waged an all-out defense against a rocket attack from former colleague Richard Clarke, I'd say the fortress stands.

It's pockmarked, but it stands.

It was clear even before the Sept. 11, 2001, investigating commission began its work that President Bush did not give terrorism sufficient priority prior to al Qaeda's attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. Bush rarely, if ever, talked about the problem.

The commission's staff, Richard Clarke and still-loyal Bush aides now have provided details of what was and wasn't done - planning was conducted, but slowly and not at the highest level; the FBI was not upgraded; and no attempts were made to capture or kill Osama bin Laden.

But Clarke was unable to provide anything like "smoking gun" proof of willful negligence on the part of the president or his staff or compelling evidence that the Sept. 11 attacks could have been prevented.

The closest he came was to contrast the behavior of the Bush White House during June and July 2001 to that in the Clinton White House in December 2000, when he said that Clinton National Security Adviser Sandy Berger held daily meetings with the FBI, the CIA and the attorney general in response to alerts that terrorists were planning to attack the United States.

A bomber headed for the Los Angeles International Airport was apprehended at the Canadian border. Clark said, "Now, contrast that with what happened in the summer of 2001, when we had even more clear indications that there was going to be an attack. Did the president call for daily meetings of his team to try to stop the attacks? Did [National Security Adviser] Condi Rice hold meetings of her counterparts to try to stop the attacks? No."

And, yet, there's no evidence anywhere that the 2001 warnings were specific enough to have prevented airliners from being used as missiles. Bush was meeting daily with CIA Director George Tenet, who said he was "setting his hair on fire" with worry over an impending attack. There's no evidence that Bush was yawning.

And, as part of its defense against Clarke, the White House released an e-mail that he wrote to Rice on Sept. 15, 2001, recounting meetings that were held during a period of high alert.

"At the special meeting on 5 July were the FBI, Secret Service, Federal Aviation Agency, Customs Coast Guard and Immigration. We told them that we thought a spectacular Al Queda terrorist attack was coming in the near future. We asked that they take special measures to increase security and surveillance.

"Thus, the White House did insure that domestic law enforcement (including FAA) knew that ... a major Al Queda attack was coming and it could be in the U.S. ... and did ask that special measures be taken."

It seems to me that, in the absence of proof of negligence, what counts politically is what President Bush did after 9/11. This is something that citizens of the country have witnessed first-hand, and they have been giving Bush high marks ever since.

They continue to do so. A Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll conducted as Clarke was testifying showed that 52 percent of voters found his accusations believable - and yet 65 percent still approve of Bush's responses to 9/11.

That's because Bush was undeniably forceful - both in expressing the country's grief and rage and in waging a military campaign against Afghanistan that ousted the Taliban government and denied sanctuary to al Qaeda.

Clarke and various Democrats, including presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry (Mass.), have accused the White House of engaging in vicious character attacks to discredit Clarke.

But Clarke, after all, has been vicious in attacking Bush. The Bush response has been, in the main, factual.

On CBS' "60 Minutes," Clarke declared, "I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism. He ignored it ... for months, when maybe we could have done something to stop 9/11. Maybe. We'll never know."

Besides making some petty observations that Clarke was trying to sell a book, the White House released - and was entirely within its rights to release - a background briefing that Clarke held with reporters in August 2002 in which he defended White House preparations.

Contrary to a Time magazine assertion that the Bush administration rejected Clinton administration anti-terrorism plans out of "animus," Clarke told the reporters that Bush had kept on Clinton officials - notably, Clarke himself - and that Clinton never had actually developed a full-blown "plan" to fight terror.

Questioned sharply by 9/11 commission members about the contrast between the background transcript and his book, Clarke claimed - in essence - that he'd "spun" reporters at the urging of his White House superiors. The only alternative, he said, would have been to resign. Surely, he could have simply declined.

The most damning single challenge to Clarke's credibility is the fact that he urgently sought to stay on in the Bush administration to be No. 2 man at the Department of Homeland Security.

Friends of Clarke's have told me that he was deeply bitter when he was denied the job. Clearly, were he in that post today, his book, "Against All Enemies," would never have been written.

In the process of attacking Bush, Clarke has extolled the Clinton administration's record on terrorism, which he said had "top priority." But the fact is that after repeated attacks on U.S. targets - the World Trade Center, two U.S. embassies and the USS Cole - Clinton responded only once, with a cruise missile strike.

And, the record shows that, during the Clinton days, Clarke felt Clinton did not do enough to fight terrorism, either.

In fact, he's right. Neither Clinton nor Bush actually waged a "war on terror" before 9/11. But there's no question that Bush is waging one now, and voters understand it.

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Titus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 05:07 pm
By Brian Braiker
Newsweek

March 27, 2004 - Richard Clarke's charge that George W. Bush largely ignored the Al Qaeda threat before the September 11 attacks has dealt a sharp blow to the president's ratings on a crucial issue.

According to the latest NEWSWEEK poll, the percentage of voters who say they approve of the way the president has handled terrorism and homeland security has slid to 57 percent, down from a high of 70 percent just two months ago.

The survey was conducted after Clarke, a former counterterrorism chief in both the Bush and Clinton administrations, testified to the 9/11 commission on Wednesday.

SOURCE: www.msnbc.com/newsweek
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 06:50 am
What this tells me is that the hard liners of the republicans are not going to change their minds and it will still be a close election with Bush narrowly winning but that is all the counts in the end. Unless we (democrats) get the message out on just how bad Bush has done on all areas of his time in office Bush is going to win. It is going to be hard though. What we need to do is stress how they are trying to roll back on all the successes that we have had since the civil rights movements era and how they are pushing their own idealogy agenda's not for the good of the nation as a whole but just for those who think like them. The trouble is that these things are hard to prove in a black and white fashion, it is more like a conclusion that is reached based on actions and things they advocate to be done. For some reason they are better at espousing their side of things than we are of saying how wrong their views are.

This is just my view of things that I feel like sharing. I am so depressed about all this I am in no mood to attempt to show in a convincing way (even if I could) what I mean.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 11:37 am
revel wrote:
Quote:
For some reason they (Bush supporters) are better at espousing their side of things than we are of saying how wrong their views are.


I had to smile at that since those of us who more or less support the Bush side feel our side frequently isn't doing a good enough job of getting their message out in the face of loud and virulent opposition.

Personally I think if people could become less partisan and resist viewing personalities so negatively, and if we each could concede that both sides sometimes get it right and both sides sometimes get it wrong, we might be able to actually agree on what the best side is now and then. When that begins to happen on a national scale, we will actually begin to see some solutions being found for many national problems.

Maybe it is human nature that makes it so hard to give any credit to the opposition?
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 02:00 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
revel wrote:
Quote:
For some reason they (Bush supporters) are better at espousing their side of things than we are of saying how wrong their views are.

I had to smile at that since those of us who more or less support the Bush side feel our side frequently isn't doing a good enough job of getting their message out in the face of loud and virulent opposition.

Personally I think if people could become less partisan and resist viewing personalities so negatively, and if we each could concede that both sides sometimes get it right and both sides sometimes get it wrong, we might be able to actually agree on what the best side is now and then. When that begins to happen on a national scale, we will actually begin to see some solutions being found for many national problems.

Maybe it is human nature that makes it so hard to give any credit to the opposition?

Something I've noticed over the years is that conservatives "think" while liberals "feel." When you hear someone say "I feel that this is mean-spirited and wrong, and will cause noise pollution," you know you're listening to a liberal. When you hear "I think this is going to make us widen the road by twelve feet and add a four-foot higher guard rail on the south end," that's probably a conservative.

Another example. Liberal talking about George Bush - "I just hate him. I hate everything he stands for and the way he swaggers around. I hate his Cabinet too. Rummy wants to take over the world and Ashcroft wipes his butt with the Constitution." Very rarely do you hear any specifics. Conservative talking about John Kerry - "Out of 87 votes on whether to raise or lower taxes, Kerry voted 84 times to raise. Out of 27 votes to increase spending on the military, Kerry voted against every single one." Those numbers aren't real, just put in for argument's sake.

And yet...in some cases it seems to me that the liberal complaints about the administration are more effective, especially for people who don't want to think too much. If you ever watch the "Jaywalking" segment on the Tonight show you'll know what I mean. There are people out there who have no idea what's happening in the world or who's making it happen. All they know is what they hear on TV or from their friends. When they get into the voting booth (if they take the trouble), they will see "Bush" on one side of the ballot and "Kerry" on the other side. And their tiny little brains will think "Well I heard Bush is bad so I'd better vote against him." Those mouth-breathers are out there. But I'm not sure whether it's worth the time to convince them, because few of them ever vote (but boy can they reproduce).

I heard a local radio talk show with a liberal host taking calls about gun control. Of course he was in favor of it, but the last caller gave him pro-gun facts and statistics and answered every question he could think of, pretty much destroying his arguments against gun control laws. And after all that, when the caller hung up, the host said "Well those gun guys, they sure can roll out the statistics...but I don't know..." And he left it at that. He's one of those guys you could talk to day after day, drowning him in statistics and logic, but he would still "feel" that guns are bad, and that's the way he would vote. It almost seems like a left brain right brain type of thing...maybe...

The above is not meant to be insulting. It's just the way the world seems to work from what I've seen.
0 Replies
 
ConstantlyQuestioning
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 02:43 pm
Quote:
Personally I think if people could become less partisan and resist viewing personalities so negatively, and if we each could concede that both sides sometimes get it right and both sides sometimes get it wrong, we might be able to actually agree on what the best side is now and then.


I couldn't have said it better myself foxfyre. It's disturbing to see the venom that each side uses on the other. I've been to predominately conservative msg boards and liberal msg boards. While their philosophies slightly differ, the rhetoric is the same. They both have pre-made lists of clever insults and derogatory catch phrases to attack the other side with.

Quote:
I am so depressed about all this I am in no mood to attempt to show in a convincing way (even if I could) what I mean.


Don't be depressed revel. Keep making your points while avoiding personal attacks and insults. While I may disagree with your positions, I'll give them the attention and consideration they're due.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 03:51 pm
Quote:

Something I've noticed over the years is that conservatives "think" while liberals "feel." When you hear someone say "I feel that this is mean-spirited and wrong, and will cause noise pollution," you know you're listening to a liberal. When you hear "I think this is going to make us widen the road by twelve feet and add a four-foot higher guard rail on the south end," that's probably a conservative.


This makes no sense at all. Usually it is exactly the opposite.

The conservative response to 9/11 is a emotional response. The slogans ("never forget") and that stupid eagle flying song are all very emotional responses. The "patriot act" is a very emotional response -- the very name is emotional. The arguments for the war against Iraq is emotionally based.

The liberal arguments are much more intellectual. They say we need to worry about the causes of terror. They work to make sure the Bill of Rights is upheld and the speak against the anti-terror hysteria that informs so much of todays politics.

The conservative support of the death penalty is very emotional. It talks about victims rights and utilizes the fear Americans have of scary killers.

The liberal arguments are much more intellectual. They note that is costs more to exucute someone than to imprison them for life. They point to studies that the death penalty does not reduce crime and the show that we sometimes get it wrong.

The conservative opposition to gay marriage is very emotional. They talk about this "attack on marriage" and many conservatives fear that this will damage society in some spiritual way.

The liberal arguments are much more intellectual. They use reason to point out that gay marriage does not effect other marriage and they make a constitutional argument based on rights.

Listen to a Bush speech. You will find a great appeal to deep emotions -- fear, anger and pride. You will not find much reason, logic or facts.

I find that true with most of the conservative arguments.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Mar, 2004 06:27 pm
Quote:
The liberal arguments are much more intellectual.


Laughing
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 06:58 am
foxfrye

I think it is people not their party who are either emotional or rational. I freely admit that I am emotional, it is the way I form all my beliefs and generally everything I do or say.

If someone says that they hate Bush, there are probably reasons behind their emotions. It is not just political. I didn't hate Regan, though I disagreed with his economic theories. I didn't hate Bush the first. In fact when bush the first came on TV and talked, I didn't cringe and feel like standing up and yelling my head off the way I do every time I see Bush the second on TV in my living room. I liked Bush the first's "points of light" speech and Randy Travis's song.

It is just that this administration is like the Tom Delays wing of republican party have taken over our country and now they are moving on to the rest of the world. I instinctively distrust this administration and I have since they took office. I feel they are extreme radicals hiding behind "compassionate moderate clothing."
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 05:35 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Quote:
The liberal arguments are much more intellectual.


Laughing

I believe you just made eb_brown's point. eb put up an excellent argument and you countered with an emoticon. Maybe I missed something and that was a super high powered intellectual emoticon.

One thing I have noticed is that conservatives drool at the mouth over an article like Ann Coulter's "how 9/11 happened" without even noticing that she trashed our brave military more than Carter or Clinton.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 06:01 pm
Revel writes:
Quote:
I didn't hate Bush the first. In fact when bush the first came on TV and talked, I didn't cringe and feel like standing up and yelling my head off the way I do every time I see Bush the second on TV in my living room


It would be interesting to know how one comes to hate enough s/he feels like standing and up and yelling his/her head off when the president comes on TV. Is it reasoned? Is it dictated by others? Does it arise out of bitter disappointment that one's preferred side loses? I simply do not understand hate like this. It is foreign to me.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 06:10 pm
Quote:
I simply do not understand hate like this. It is foreign to me.

you obviously have not completed your pledge and 3 session workshop training seminar in the "I love Bush and all he stands for" precinct of united we stand against any ideas not our own.
Clinton was the best thing since sliced bread.
btw I have never voted for a Bush or a Clinton.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 07:05 pm
Foxfrye, I don't know what to tell you, I only know that Bush 2 inspires an emotion of pure disgust and revulsion in me and no other administration or past republicans ever had before. I was even on Clarence Thomas's side during that whole hearing thing and I found myself rooting for Oli North, so it is not as though I am some kind of partisan person despite of the way I may come off. (I have since changed my mind regarding Oli North since he has taken to talk shows and let his true self come out)
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 09:28 pm
ebrown_p wrote:
This makes no sense at all. Usually it is exactly the opposite.

Well, no, it usually isn't. Ever heard that term that's been in common use for years? "Bleeding Heart Liberal?" That term was invented to describe the liberal tendency to get all emotional about issues, where conservatives are more logical.

ebrown_p wrote:
The conservative response to 9/11 is a emotional response. The slogans ("never forget") and that stupid eagle flying song are all very emotional responses. The "patriot act" is a very emotional response -- the very name is emotional. The arguments for the war against Iraq is emotionally based.

The liberal arguments are much more intellectual. They say we need to worry about the causes of terror. They work to make sure the Bill of Rights is upheld and the speak against the anti-terror hysteria that informs so much of todays politics.

Terrorist attack - liberal response - "We must have done something very wrong for them to hate us so much. We should form a commission to change our culture, and we should open up a dialog with these poor misunderstood people and celebrate their diversity."
Terrorist attack - conservative response - "That's the last straw. This has gone on for too long. Contact all the countries in the world and tell them the war against terrorism starts today."
Conclusion - When a murderer is rampaging through the city killing citizens right and left, you don't form a committee and psychoanalyze his childhood. You send in the police to get him, either taking him into custody or killing him if he puts up a fight.

ebrown_p wrote:
The conservative support of the death penalty is very emotional. It talks about victims rights and utilizes the fear Americans have of scary killers.

The liberal arguments are much more intellectual. They note that is costs more to exucute someone than to imprison them for life. They point to studies that the death penalty does not reduce crime and the show that we sometimes get it wrong.

Death penalty - liberal response - "This poor man is misunderstood and disadvantaged. He was abused as a child and his chemical dependency was the real cause of his killing spree. We should strive to understand him. He has fallen through the cracks and The System has let him down. His loss of self-esteem has been punishment enough - nothing further will be served by killing him. Two wrongs don't make a right."
Death penalty - conservative response - "Some crimes are so extreme that they revoke the criminal's right to continue breathing. Some people say the death penalty isn't a deterrent to crime. Well this guy strapped to the gurney with the needle in his arm will soon be incapable of committing another crime. THAT'S a real deterrent."
Conclusion - Compassion is a fine and honorable thing, but it has a limit. There are some people whose horrible crimes put them in a place where they don't deserve compassion. They need to be snuffed out in an instantaneous burst of atomic fire. See ya later, pal...WHOOF!

ebrown_p wrote:
Listen to a Bush speech. You will find a great appeal to deep emotions -- fear, anger and pride. You will not find much reason, logic or facts.

I find that true with most of the conservative arguments.

I find exactly the opposite, every time. Liberals say "I feel we have to do this for the children. Think of the children!" Conservatives say "Let's quit stalling and get this done." The emotion is all on the liberal side, and the logic is all on the conservative side.

In the Bush speeches I've heard, he goes out of his way to explain the mechanics of legislation he supports. I haven't heard much fear and anger from him. I have heard honor and resolve and pride. And I don't see anything wrong with that.

Foxfyre wrote:
It would be interesting to know how one comes to hate enough s/he feels like standing and up and yelling his/her head off when the president comes on TV. Is it reasoned? Is it dictated by others? Does it arise out of bitter disappointment that one's preferred side loses? I simply do not understand hate like this. It is foreign to me.

I had exactly the same reaction. It's obvious to me that George Bush is an honest man who ran for President not to get power, but to do a good job for the country. Every time I see him I feel proud that one of my votes put him in office. So I would also like to know what makes a person dislike the President.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 09:32 pm
Quote:
where conservatives are more logical.

de plane boss, de plane---welcome to fantasy island
neither party/ideology has a lock on logical. get freakin real dude.\, you seem to be lost in the ozone again.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 10:17 pm
Hey, don't get your panties in a bunch, it's just one person's point of view.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2004 11:22 pm
If you want a good laugh sometime just tune in to a conservative radio talk show and listen to the sponsor lineup.
Albacore (cure for baldness)
Debt relief clearing house
CortiSlim ( hormonal fat burner)
Sea Silver (Vitamin scam)
Ionic Breeze (air filter scam)
and many more that do not come to mind right now. Most are what I would call gullibility factor products. I guess the marketeers Know their audience.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2004 12:15 am
What do they advertise on Air America radio? Evian and Birkenstock? Laughing
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2004 12:32 am
Tarantulas wrote:
What do they advertise on Air America radio? Evian and Birkenstock? Laughing

Evian: The Bottled water choice of the US Military in GW I. I drank many bottles of it. Very Happy
Birkenstock: High quality sandles that are sehr comfy! Very Happy
Sound good to me.
0 Replies
 
Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Apr, 2004 01:33 am
You know "Evian" backward is "Naive," right?
0 Replies
 
 

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