Did Jesus Actually Exist?

@Olivier5,

Jackass . . . i don't agree with you. Apparently you didn't get the memo that there is a distinct difference between the question of whether or not there was some religious nutbag called Yeshua and whether or not there was the "Jesus" of popular conception. I'm not surprised--your understanding, your ability to see such distinctions has never appeared to be very good.

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As Olive Tree is apparently so dense that he needs to have this repeated, and there may be others here, i will repeat what i have already explicitly stated. The question of whether or not Jesus actually existed (the burden of this thread) is not at all the same as whether or not some religious loon named Yeshua existed, in Palestine 2000 years ago.

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@Setanta,

His HS yearbook photo is tres snappy. He sported a mullet back then. They used to call him "Yosh"

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@carloslebaron,

carloslebaron wrote:

Quote:
I guess for some people...a discussion about George Washington would have to include the notion of him throwing a silver dollar across the Potomac...chopping down a cherry tree and owning up to it...and never telling a lie...in order for the discussion to be appropriate and reasonable.

As usual, even using analogies are out of context in this topic. You can ignore the stories around George Washington, but you can't deny his historical existence as a person, which is the main question here talking about Jesus.

Comprende? oops, transliterating it to English... comprehende?

No "out of context" there. But if it makes you feel better about yourself to think there is...go for it. Whatever works...use it.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

Id just remind everyone that there is a drastic difference as far as legitimizing either of their existences. The thing is George Washington was written about from multiple sources. Not to mention the coroner interning his body and writing about it in a book. The entire experience was enough to fill a book. Jesus does not have multiple sources which is even more bizarre since a man walking around healing the sick and doing miraculous things surely should have ended up in another source. Sure illiteracy was common back then but there had to be scribes of challenging religious views during his time that would have at least written something about a "magical" man. The ONLY source is the bible and it's credibility is suspect.

My point was not about sources...or number of sources, Krumple.

It was that some people were suggesting that because it appears this Jesus character (whether a single person or or a group) was raised to be more than just a man teaching an idea...that is part of showing that he did not exist.

Many people who almost certainly lived have had what is obviously myth and legend attached. Washington is one...Newton, Archenemies, and you can think of the others if you want. Augustus lived...and chances are was not a god.

Shakespeare.

The comments I made about Washington WERE appropriate to what I was countering.

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And now it's time for a soundtrack . . .

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@Setanta,

But of course you agree with me, Set darling. You realized that as soon as you understood what the question was about, after WEEKS of debates.

Comment on dit chez moi: Tu comprends vite mais il faut t'expliquer longtempts...

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@Olivier5,

Olivier wrote:

Comment on dit chez moi

Shouldn't it be "Comme on dit chez moi"?

And "longtemps" too..

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@Olivier5,

J'ai compris au commencement.

You're the one who is trying do dance around the issue of "Jesus" as compared to some loon named Yeshua who may or may not have been wandering around Palestine 2000 years ago.

This is all you've got let, an idiotic word game. That's no surprise, given your history of paltry rhetoric and completely invalid claims.

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I think there is no more for me to say on here. I will pop in to see how it goes, but I am done.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

To sum up if these writings that was similar to the Jefferson bible telling of a non-supernatural moral teacher there would be far less questions of the truth of his existence.

Does the claim attributed to Julius Caesar that the goddess Venus was among his ancestors lead you to question his historical existence?

There is one gospel without any magic in it, and without the resurrection: the gospel of Thomas.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

In my opinion, he was not a man, but a product of the ferment that existed for years in those times.

Not too sure what that means in practice but hey, who cares? To each his own Jesus, even if it has a "ferment".

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@edgarblythe,

You never said anything anyway...

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@Setanta,

Lol. You've been caught trying to change the goalpost, and now you try to weasel your way out and save face in front of your entourage by lying like a vulgar troll. You're a waste of time.

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@Setanta,

You don't get to define what the topic is. Finn, who started the thread, repeatedly explained that the question was about the historical guy, not the magical son of god.

If the issue is whether people can walk on water or come back from death, iT's a NO-BRAINER!!!

All the same, I'm happy you finally understood what the question was. Better late than never.

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@timur,

Thanks for the spell check.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Does the claim attributed to Julius Caesar that the goddess Venus was among his ancestors lead you to question his historical existence?

Not at all as unlike Jesus we are not depending for proof of his existence on almost or nearly almost completely on the writings of a religion cult that is selling a supernatural being.

Hardly the same thing to put it mildly.

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@Krumple,

Quote:

Id just remind everyone that there is a drastic difference as far as legitimizing either of their existences. The thing is George Washington was written about from multiple sources. Not to mention the coroner interning his body and writing about it in a book. The entire experience was enough to fill a book. Jesus does not have multiple sources which is even more bizarre since a man walking around healing the sick and doing miraculous things surely should have ended up in another source. Sure illiteracy was common back then but there had to be scribes of challenging religious views during his time that would have at least written something about a "magical" man. The ONLY source is the bible and it's credibility is suspect.

Such is a good point, Yeshu (Jesus) wasn't a person of relevance to the point of being noticed by others than the ones around him. He walked with a group of men, not so an army. He didn't buy lands or acquired richness.

Authorities might have heard rumors about him as another sorcerer, but was not worthy to be taken seriously by them.

Only for a small number of the Jewish population, Yeshu became a reformist, who told them to restore the former way of worshiping their god and to take care of their neighbor (love their god and their neighbor)

But, the Jewish religious authorities felt attacked by this man, and they decided to test his claims as the son of their god.

Here is when, Yeshu was taken to the Sanhedrin, and this kind of court case was recorded. This man Yeshu was sentenced to death to be fulfilled on the eve of Passover.

While the charges should have been "blasphemy" because Yeshu was claiming to be the son of their god and possibly to replace their god, in the records the charges are"apostasy" which is a more convenient reason for sending to death a person, in base of the words of Moses in Deuteronomy 13, and avoid people repeating that he was the son of their god.

Here is when you have another source that this man existed: Tractate Sanhedrin 43a.

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Whether Jesus (if a single person) ever claimed divinity is still in doubt. Nobody here can say that he did or didn't. They can say that some of the writers, who may have decided to put those words into Jesus' mouth, suggested that he did that.

I still suggest that point does not play a significant part in whether or not a person existed who is the Jesus figure in the Bible.

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@Olivier5,

You said a lot but never made a case.

1 Reply

Did Jesus Actually Exist?

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