I believe in B-ball ...

I say Heat/Mavs in a 7 game barnburner, with Mavs coming out on top.

@panzade,

That being said, though, I love watching Rose. Hes a lot of fun to watch play as he releases his shot against...well..ANYONE!

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@snood,

Dirk is a tour de force, isn't he? I dare say, Bill Walton-esque?

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@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

Dirk is a tour de force, isn't he? I dare say, Bill Walton-esque?

I just think the combination of frustration from years of never winning the title, good additions to the team for defense and aggressiveness, and yes, Nowinski's talent and consistency will give them momentum this time.

I don't know about comparing him to Walton, though. I always kinda felt like Bill was overrated as a player, and I didn't like the know-it-all-pundit -with-rightwing-leanings persona he took on.

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@snood,

Dirk is one of the most underrated players. He has heart and a passion for the game. So do the Mavs. I see them coming out on top.

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@snood,

umm...lefty Bill went righty? Is this the same guy who was a far-lefty-SLA sympathizer and helped hide Patty Hearst? When did that happen? I must have been out that day in the news cycle. Are you sure "Grateful Red" as he is known is the same one here? He's no Ted Nugent.

In his playing days, when his feet and injuries weren't hobbling him, Bill W was one the top 5 Centers of ALL time! I had followed him from his days at UCLA. He was one of the few big men that could dribble, pass, shot-block, rebound and defend. When his feet weren't totally messed up, he was amazing. Witness the last years with the Celtics when he was part of their championship (Parrish, Bird, McHale etc). His 15 minutes per game was amazing and made for a seamless transition from either McHale or Parish.

"Providing a reliable backup to McHale and Parish, Walton played in a career-high 80 games and received the NBA Sixth Man Award that season en route to the NBA Championship, becoming the only player to have ever won an NBA Finals MVP, Sixth Man Award, and regular season MVP."

If you can set aside all that other mound of stuff, you'd see a truly transcendant Hall of Famer. It happens to be coupled with a Hall-of-Shame mouth.

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@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

umm...lefty Bill went righty? Is this the same guy who was a far-lefty-SLA sympathizer and helped hide Patty Hearst? When did that happen? I must have been out that day in the news cycle. Are you sure "Grateful Red" as he is known is the same one here? He's no Ted Nugent.

In his playing days, when his feet and injuries weren't hobbling him, Bill W was one the top 5 Centers of ALL time! I had followed him from his days at UCLA. He was one of the few big men that could dribble, pass, shot-block, rebound and defend. When his feet weren't totally messed up, he was amazing. Witness the last years with the Celtics when he was part of their championship (Parrish, Bird, McHale etc). His 15 minutes per game was amazing and made for a seamless transition from either McHale or Parish.

"Providing a reliable backup to McHale and Parish, Walton played in a career-high 80 games and received the NBA Sixth Man Award that season en route to the NBA Championship, becoming the only player to have ever won an NBA Finals MVP, Sixth Man Award, and regular season MVP."

If you can set aside all that other mound of stuff, you'd see a truly transcendant Hall of Famer. It happens to be coupled with a Hall-of-Shame mouth.

Maybe its because he followed my basketball idol Lew Alcindor (AKA Kareem Abdul-Jabaar) at UCLA and I had to listen to comparisons between the two that I thought were totally bogus. I know he had a couple of outstanding NBA years, but I always felt like a little too much was made of it, especially if you compared his achievements and production to... say, Jabaar's.

And yes, I think his views have changed a lot since his halcyon hippie days. I'll research it and get back to you, but I could swear I've heard some pretty O'Reilly-esque things coming out of his mouth over the last several years.

<Edit> Well, I guess you're right - it appears he does still lean to the left, from what I could find. I don't really know where I got the "rightie" impression from...

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@snood,

OK... I understand where you are coming from on that. I've not heard anything righty from him. He's aware enough that it would wear pretty poorly on his credibility (I would think).

Well, remember in a head-to-head Jabbar-Walton matchup in Portland Blazer championship days he took Jabbar to school and beat him. He was a force to be reckoned with. However, he still holds the record for the longest time on injured-DNP-list for an NBA career.

I think something made too much of is these pseudo-intellectual celebs or sports figures who express their opinions on the national policies of the day. Why should I care what Walton or Charles Barkley has to say about politics. They are jocks...not anything more. Jokey jocks at that.

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@Ragman,

Quote:

Well, remember in a head-to-head Jabbar-Walton matchup in Portland Blazer championship days he took Jabbar to school and beat him.

Let's don't totally re-write history in favor of our favorites, here. Yes, the Trailblazers swept a weak Lakers team that year, but the head-to-head matchup was still dominated by Kareem. The stats don't lie.

Here's the series matchup stats:
Kareem - 30.3 ppg, 16 rpg, 3.8 apg, 3.8 bpg, 60.8 FG%
Walton: 19.3 ppg, 14.8 rpg, 5.8 apg, 2.3 bpg, 51 FG%.
http://realbasketballtalk.motionsforum.com/t7363-bill-walton-vs-kareem-abdul-jabbar-1977-western-conference-finals-match-up

The Lakers had lost their only other rebounder - Kermit Washington, and they got badly beaten in the backcourt. Bill Walton had more assists, but then, he had people to pass to. After he dunked once with Kareem in the vicinity, the sportscasters were all a-twitter with "Kareem is through!".
Kareem got a much stronger supporting cast in about 2 years - one of whom was a guy named Earvin Johnson. Walton got a ring and had a couple good years. But he never - ever - outplayed Jabbar head-to-head.

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@snood,

Ok...debating this a bit more:

If you can somehow put aside his injury time-outs, some people list 9 other better centers. IMHO, I'm not sure there was a better defensive center besides Bill Russell.

I'll give you this ..that Kareem was a better center. Perhaps he was the number one overall center :

Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain

Moses Malone
Olajuwon?
Shaq
David Robinson
Willis Reed

"Walton would have been higher on this list had he had a healthy career. However, he could never stay healthy, as he only played in 468 career games. The fact that he still made the list shows you how great he really was. He had career averages of 13.3 points, 10.5 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 2.2 blocks, and 0.8 steals in only 28 minutes per game.

He also shot a fantastic 52.1 percent from the field and 66 percent from the free-throw line. He is generally considered as the greatest passing big man of all time, and one of the best defensive centers as well."

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@Ragman,

Ragman - I wasn't "debating" about who was the best center of all time, or however you're framing this now. That's a whole 'nother thread, or discussion. I was disputing your assertion that Walton "Schooled" Kareem in the '77 finals, that's all.

There was a lot of that kind of talk during those years- that Walton was somehow a better, more fundamental player than Kareem - and I think maybe that's the mindset you're coming from.

I think a lot of it was because Kareem didn't endear himself to the press, and was considered sullen and militant. I think a lot of people wanted Walton to be a better player than Jabbar so they could have someone to look up to - but all their wishing (or yours) didn't make it so then, or now.

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On another, slightly less contentious note...

What's everyone's feelings on the Bulls' chances against Miami?

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@snood,

well, let's start with the way Miami manhandled the Hawks in the regular season:

Game 1 on Dec 4 Miami won 89-77
Game 2 on Jan 18 Hawks won 93-89
Game 3 on March 18 Miami won 106-85
Game 4 on April 11 Miami won 98-90

Did the Hawks improve enough to give the Bulls all they could handle?

How much gas is left in the Bulls bus and how has the long rest helped the Heat?

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@panzade,

So, it sounds like you don't think their chances are that great. Judging solely from their regular season record against the Heat, I would have to agree. However, it is pretty commonly accepted that teams' mindsets tend to change - to intensify and focus - in the playoffs. I'm hoping that the Bulls have a better postseason than regular season.

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@snood,

If the Bulls have a better post-season they'll win it all.

The sweep is a factor but the Heat were missing some key players so it might not matter

The team's are very evenly matched
Bulls: Offense 105.4 (12th in NBA); Defense 97.4 (1st in NBA)
Heat: Offense 109.3 (3rd in NBA); Defense: 100.8 (5th in NBA)

It'll go 7 but I don't know who will win.

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@snood,

i lose interest when my team's not in it.

glad to see coach rivers inked a 5-year extension...

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@snood,

I never said you were debating it. I was proposing and trying to have a sports debate. You're attempting to have a different kind of discussion.

I didn't and don't 'wish' it. However, you seem to want to turn to this into a race issue. Where I clearly admitted to Jabbar being the number one center of all time. I liked Jabbar then and now.

So where is this wish you say I allegedly have?

My prediction:
Miami Heat over the Bulls in 6 games.

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@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

I never said you were debating it. I was proposing and trying to have a sports debate. You're attempting to have a different kind of discussion.

I didn't and don't 'wish' it. However, you seem to want to turn to this into a race issue. Where I clearly admitted to Jabbar being the number one center of all time. I liked Jabbar then and now.

So where is this wish you say I allegedly have?

My prediction:
Miami Heat over the Bulls in 6 games.

If that's the way you see the exchange we just had, that's fine with me. I happen to think you made an unfounded statement about Walton "schooling" Jabbar, I simply disagreed and explained why. I'll stand by the observations I made about the way Jabbar and Walton were treated in the press, and I'm not trying to "make" it about anything.

And I'd be pleased as punch to just keep this about current basketball events.

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@snood,

me too. that was my intent.

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@Ragman,

Ragman wrote:

. . . My prediction:
Miami Heat over the Bulls in 6 games.

I'll take the Heat in five.

1 Reply

I believe in B-ball ...

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