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How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

Forums: Religion, Philosophy, Psychology, Humor, Fact Is True
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martinies
 
  1  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 04:56 am
@fresco,
Yes but we are talking local existance .
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 04:58 am
@fresco,
I, for one, don't feel bound by ol' Baruch's view(s). The central claim of the Abrahamic traditions is that their creator exists in a potent way. Everything else stems from that. Until that first postulate is either proven or given substantial supportive evidence, I don't see much point in discussing the finer details of the subsequent rationalizations and mythologies.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 05:01 am
@FBM,
Your bringing up other names is the straw man here.

The point here is that before Quantum Mechanics, critics could dismiss 'supernatural' claims as having no evidence or no basis in science (as you are fond of saying). Now however, science itself has supplied the very evidence it claimed didn't exist for the plausibility of the supernatural.

They even posite alternate universes and realms of existence. 'Where is your God ?' you ask? Now there is a plausible answer in your own 'back yard'.
FBM
 
  2  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 05:13 am
@Leadfoot,
You have yet to demonstrate that QM opens the door for the supernatural in general, or that it points to your favorite god in particular. Until you suceed in doing the latter, your argument is flat, mere rhetorical posturing.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 05:17 am
@fresco,
Quote:
On this view, questions about the 'existence of God' are irrelevant.... questions neatly dismissed by Spinoza with his dictum that 'God IS existence'.
That's what I'm talk'n about.

Before QM when some dreamy eyed bible thumper knocked on your door and starts talking about how 'God is everywhere' he could be dismissed as delusional. Now, not so much.

Now the rest of the bible thumpers story is a different matter...

0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 05:25 am
@FBM,
You still don't get it. I don't have to succeed. Science is proving the supernatural for me. If there is anything left that QM says isn't possible, I haven't heard of it.

Favorite God? Hell, science now says there might be an infinite number of them , one for each of all those universes that 'might be'.
FBM
 
  2  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 05:29 am
@Leadfoot,
So, you can't back up your claim that QM allows or suggests supernaturalism or your invisible friend. Well, that was a waste of time, wasn't it?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 05:33 am
@martinies,
I take 'local existence' to mean nothing more than local agreement within groups about their focus of attention' i.e. what they consider to be 'an object' relative to them as 'subjects'. As I understand it, Spinoza's 'God' transcends the dichotomy subject-object.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  3  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 05:37 am
@Leadfoot,
According to Cox's book on QM, 'whatever can happen, does happen'.
That is not the same as 'everything is possible'.
Leadfoot
 
  -1  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 06:01 am
@fresco,
Yeah, but Cox isn't the only game in town on QM.
I've heard 'experts' with published books say the equivalent of 'everything is'.

I'm not trying to 'prove God' with QM, I'm just saying the irony of it makes me laugh.
martinies
 
  1  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 11:40 am
@Leadfoot,
Relativity to the neutral chooses outcomes in chaos. The dice is throne but relativity chooses the on going result. The result has no rest state though chaos is on going.
martinies
 
  1  
Mon 9 Nov, 2015 12:32 pm
@martinies,
The observer effect in qm is relativity at work. Relativity chooses a result nearest the neutral nonlocality. So the future is involved in present out comes. Relativity from passed and future give the present out come with the guidence of the nonlocal neutrality which is the ultimate future and passed.
martinies
 
  1  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 06:38 am
@martinies,
What existed before the bigbang existed exists as the difference in the different things that exist in the bigbang.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 06:46 am
@martinies,
I really loved that recent theory that the universe was nothing, and still is, But it's well organized nothing.

So even if they're right, the question is the same - Who/what organized Nothing?
FBM
 
  2  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 06:58 am
@Leadfoot,
And who/what organized the thing that organized Nothing? And who/what organized that? And that? Google "infinite regress" and "special pleading fallacy."
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 07:13 am
@FBM,
Glad you're still contemplating the question.

Or are you into 'Nothing/Everything is inherently self organizing'?
FBM
 
  3  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 07:32 am
@Leadfoot,
Did your god self-organize? If so, why couldn't the universe? Your god hypothesis becomes superfluous, redundant. If not, then who/what organized it? Infinite regress. Fail after fail. Learn basic science, basic logic. It helps.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 08:04 am
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot...getting a lecture from FBM that you ought to learn basic logic...

...is like getting a lecture from Chris Christie in how to keep your weight down.

0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 08:34 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

Did your god self-organize? If so, why couldn't the universe? Your god hypothesis becomes superfluous, redundant. If not, then who/what organized it? Infinite regress. Fail after fail. Learn basic science, basic logic. It helps.

Short, simple, good post FBM. Your logic is sound.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Wed 11 Nov, 2015 08:40 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Fail after fail. Learn basic science, basic logic. It helps.
In basic science, Entropy rules. Ultimate fail... That's basic logic.
 

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