How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

@Leadfoot,

I'm trying to think of a reason why it might be a bad thing, but nothing comes to mind. As for why it might be a good thing, maybe it means that there'll be less science denialism and people will be more rational when thinking about vaccinations, medical treatments, etc for their kids. Maybe fewer suicide doomsday cults whose members are brainwashed into believing in things like the 'end times' and signs. Maybe less gender-based discrimination and oppression of those who identify as other than heterosexual. Basically, a modern public mindset that isn't controlled by Bronze Age mythology and ethics would be nice.

As for conflating belief and religiosity, I didn't see that in the abstract.

As for "bleeding fans," I mean 'bleeding' in the sense that when I go shopping with my girlfriend, it isn't long before I'm bleeding money. Wink

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

As for "bleeding fans," I mean 'bleeding' in the sense that when I go shopping with my girlfriend, it isn't long before I'm bleeding money.

Just like here, (right at the end of the clip.)

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@FBM,

Your positives are possibly true, but I think you were maybe a little selective in your reading of the study. While I would have used the term 'belief in God' rather than 'religious orientation', the study you cited did have the following things to say:

Quote:

[1]. Adolescents’ religious orientation is important for several reasons. Religiosity is associated with a wide range of positive outcomes, including fewer risk behaviors [2], better social functioning [3], less substance abuse [4], and better physical health [5]. Relative to other adolescents, religious adolescents also report less depression, anxiety, and other psychiatric concerns [6] and display character strengths such as fidelity.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Not that I would expect otherwise in an academic study but it always bugs me that belief in God is almost always conflated with 'religiosity'. I'd like to see a study that separated the two terms.

Belief in God is religious. "Religiosity" means the quality of being religious and also excessive or affected. Religiousness isn't necessarily religiosity.

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@Leadfoot,

I only read the abstract. Anyway, I don't claim that there is nothing whatsoever positive about the exitence of religions. I only claim that from where I'm looking, the negatives outweigh the positives for society as a whole. Particularly with regards to the long-term future. As an individual, YMMV.

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@InfraBlue,

Quote:

Belief in God is religious. "Religiosity" means the quality of being religious and also excessive or affected. Religiousness isn't necessarily religiosity.

I didn't look it up in Webster's but I'm guessing you are right about the formal meaning. The meaning to society is evolving away from that toward the things that FBM and countless others associate with the word. Note that The most popular term chosen for belief system on dating sites and in many surveys is 'Spiritual but not Religious'.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Not that I would expect otherwise in an academic study but it always bugs me that belief in God is almost always conflated with 'religiosity'.

this study did not consider belief in god/s. it investigated religious orientation.

Quote:

individuals’ religious attitudes and behaviors

Quote:

Religious orientation includes belonging to a specific religion (religious affiliation), attending religious services, religious practices (such as prayer), religiosity (the importance of religion in life), spirituality, donating to religious organizations, and approving of religious organizations

Belief in god/s is a different question/area of study.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

While I would have used the term 'belief in God' rather than 'religious orientation'

the study did not investigate belief in god/s.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Belief in God is religious

not per the definitions used in the referenced study

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@Leadfoot,

Quote:

the things that FBM and countless others associate with the word.

Please explain.

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@FBM,

Quote:

Leadfoot Quote:
"the things that FBM and countless others associate with the word."

Please explain.

I meant nothing other than what you have said. See your list of negative effects of religion a few posts back.

But I thought it was interesting that you don't see any separation between 'belief in God' and 'Religion' while ehBeth sees them as completely different subjects.

I'd be interested in what ehBeth thinks separates them.

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@Leadfoot,

People have various takes on the connations of words. No news there. What does any of this have to do with whether or not your god hypothesis has any rational (read: empirical + necessary inference) support? Whether or not this thing/entity even exists? Smells like a red herring to me.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

I'd be interested in what ehBeth thinks separates them.

did you look at the study?

they didn't ask any questions about belief in god/s. they asked about participation in religion.

some people believe in god/s and participate in religious activities.
some people believe in god/s and do not participate in religious activities.
some people do not believe in god/s and participate in religious activities.

the study was about involvement/activity in religious activities, not about beliefs. they were clear in their definition of what they were interested in and studying.

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@Leadfoot,

The study identified outcomes from involvement in organized religion, not outcomes from belief in god/s.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

some people believe in god/s and do not participate in religious activities.

Thank you! Been trying to get that across to others for awhile now.

As I said about the study, I wish THEY had made the same distinction. I think that would have resolved a lot of the contradictions.

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@Leadfoot,

The study was to determine if there was an effect from participation in religious activities.

That's it.

I'm sure you could find other studies that deal with belief in god/s. They study everything out there. The one that always sticks in my mind is the negative impact of letting patients know they are being prayed for.

http://web.med.harvard.edu/sites/RELEASES/html/3_31STEP.html

That study was replicated a few times. Bottom line, don't tell sick people you'll pray for them. It seems to cause medical complications.

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@ehBeth,

I don't see where belief in God is defined in that study.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

The study was to determine if there was an effect from participation in religious activities.

That's it.

If you don't think the writers and the average reader of that study associated 'participation in religious activities' with a belief in God, you are kidding yourself.

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@InfraBlue,

The purpose of the study was well defined.

Belief in god/s was not part of the study.

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@Leadfoot,

I'm not kidding anyone.

Few people confuse participation in religious activities with belief in god/s.

They're entirely different concepts. There are priests and ministers who don't believe in god/s. The difference between religious activity and belief in god/s is well known and researched. There's a large area of research around people who are involved in religious activities for social/political/economic/non-religious reasons. I find it a fascinating area of study.

1 Reply

How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

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