How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

Aside from the fact that the NWT more clearly identifies Satan as the villain, I see no essential differences between the accounts. Jehovah did not cause Job's trials.

Satan's rebellion was a deliberate act of Satan, not an event orchestrated by God. God will deal with the rebels in his own time, according to his own purpose. We are not here to advise him.

God is time...better, all the time !
God doesn't deal with it, has dealt.
"Satan", History, the 2 law of thermodynamics, the same thing, are all an illusion just like motion is the present...
...hmmm you keep insisting in free will, you do not know "God"...

Have a nice day !

True.
But our entire system of jurisprudence seems to agree Thank you. I plan to take in the Snohomish County Home Show this pm. If you come up, I'll buy you coffee.

There was a saying in the Temple of Delfos. used many times by Aristoteles, and it says "Nosce te Ipsum;" which means "Know thyself." I'm not saying that Religion is bad or anything; don't get me wrong. I believe it's a wonderful placebo for people that don't have the courage to take responsibility of living life and its consequences. I know, its overwhelming; I've been there; also I believe it's a wonderful placebo for those afflicted by personal problems, and are unable to see the light at the end of the tunnel. But is just a placebo.

To answer your question. Yes, I've always question myself, "Why human beings are mean to each other?," "Why there's so much violence, rape, murder, theft, treachery, and so on among human beings?" believe it or not; I was once an Apostolic Roman Catholic. Both of my parents use to give spiritual retreats sponsored by a catholic movement and their parish priest, but they were miserable in their personal life. domestic violence, glasses, dishes, pans, flying back and forth. The same thing with their friends, and churchgoer people that I knew back then; I asked to myself "Why are they arguing and bickering if they're suppose to be converted and stronger? Several times I said to myself "I'm trying to be a good catholic, but is so hard with so many temptations" and prayed to be forgiven for my weaknesses and mistakes, but still, I couldn't avoid to keep repeating the same mistakes. I was unhappy. Then I started to realize that I knew that I was weak, and I was asking God for help, and he wasn't answering, and I wasn't happy. Then it dawn on me that I didn't knew myself. You may say "that's ridiculous," and I was hoping God to solve my problems for me.

So I dedicated myself to try to know who I am, and started to dissect my actions and reactions. People's actions and reactions. After dissecting and studying those factors I've finally got to the conclusion, and I'm going to put it in math therms to make it simple : survival instinct + emotions = ego. and ego + survival instinct = ego-centrism. What do I mean by " ego + survival instinct = ego centrism?'"I mean that our survival instinct are so amplified by our emotions that they give birth to ego-centrism. Which is the compulsive need to control things, situations and people around us in order to feel safe. That's the reason why we're liars, manipulative, and mean to each other. I'm not saying that is bad to have ego, but 99,9% of the people doesn't understand that those are the poles of the personality therefore are unable to balance it. And is not something easy to do, I'm far from it, but at least I can discern, and be aware when my weakness is going to betray me, and avoid to incur in that mistake.

People often confuses Maturity with experience, or age; that's a silly thought. Maturity is the act of giving up something that possibly could make you happy for someone's happiness, for instance: when you keep your mouth shut to make your wife happy, to make your children happy, to make your parents happy, and so on. I'm glad that you found your answers in your God, and you feel that that's enough, but I don't have the patience to punishing myself for not conforming to a (which I consider nonexistent) God's unrealistic standards and feeling bad about myself, and make everybody around me, miserable, and be an hypocrite outside of my house, and an SOAB (pardon my french) inside of my house. I'm happy to know my weaknesses and strengths, and happy to know that I'm strong enough to at least recognize my weaknesses, and try (and most of the time now successfully) to overcome them. And not settle, hopelessly for an nonexistent God to help me overcome them.

The difference is in the fact that the NWT states that Satan tried to incite God to harm Job, and you interpret that to mean that he didn't, and the majority translations state that Satan did incite God to harm Job.

That assertion is not supported by the text.

This as well does not address the question of how the Devil could rule the world without God's consent.

You're merely elaborating on your first red herring in an attempt to avoid the question at hand.

It has been my contention that Satan usurped God's authority over the world in Genesis, ch 3. Is it your contention that because God did not then exact judgement, he gave implied consent?You seem to enjoy piscatorial references. It's a shame to see you misapply them.

Do you realize that all the 'big questions' you mention are all centered around you? I don't think you have any idea what I mean by 'big questions'. Not there is anything wrong with ego or self interest but the questions I'm talking about have NOTHING TO DO WITH ME.

I supose your focus is understandable given your view of reality. In your view, what else is there to understand once you know 'all about you'?

You contend that God gave Satan permission to test Job, and by extension Man, through tribulations, which is a feature of his reign, but simultaneously you say that God isn't responsible thereof. Your assertions are contradictory.



No.


In the case of your evasions, they're appropriately applied.

You are technically correct, but there is a missing factor behind the events. It was not a simple matter of Satan saying "I dare you to let bad things happen to Job" and God taking the bait.

The reason God cooperated in harming Job had nothing to do with the people involved (Job, Satan or God). At issue was the principle of whether Job's devotion to God was just a quid pro quo for all that God did for Job or was it Job recognizing the inherent qualities of God independent of anything God did for him. Satan's contention was the former but the events proved Satan wrong.

To one extent or another, Job represents every man who knows God.

Ok.

(Italics added)Then, at what point do you assert that God became responsible for man's tribulations?
Before creation, as some sort of evil plan?
Upon Satan's rebellion, as capitulation to the inevitable?
Or something I have not said?

Well, yeah, I mean, I don't consider what you consider big questions as big questions, and that's perfectly fine. You and I just happen to disagree in that point.

Your "big questions" are focused on the Genesis of everything around you, from what I understand now. My "big questions" are focused to try to understand every aspect of the human nature. That doesn't mean that my or your POV is wrong; it just means that they focus on different subjects; that's all.

Human beings, went and came back from the moon, discovered fundamental physic laws like gravity, reached the bottom of the oceans. made breathtaking breakthroughs in technology, medicine and so on, but still hasn't mastered the art of knowing themselves in a deep level. And that's the reason why I don't consider your "big questions" as "big questions" yet. Of course, I know that every theory that I've mentioned throughout our conversation are centered in my experiences trying to unveil the mysteries of the human nature. Otherwise, how do you expect that I was going to be able to to share my empiric theories about human nature with you? Like I said previously: " I don't consider what you consider big questions as big questions, and that's perfectly fine. You and I just happen to disagree in that point."

Answering your question: to find the way to overcome my weaknesses, which will never happen. But if someday happens. My next "big questions" to answer will be your "big questions" and that will be another wonderful journey as well.

In regard to the story of Job, God became responsible for Job's tribulations when he consented to and participated in Satan's tests of Job. You contend that this story refers to the tribulations of mankind in general. Going by your contention, I would think that God became responsible soon after he created man.

Note that in Job 1:10, Satan referred to a 'hedge' God had placed around Job. His request was that God remove the 'hedge'. Note that God did not allow complete license. Even in the second test, he kept the 'hedge' around Job's life.

So, why was, or is, the 'hedge' necessary? It is because, if left without such restraint, Satan would cause the death of, not only Job, but everyone living. Once he realized his Edenic rebellion would not completely succeed, once his death sentence was pronounced, humans became disposable.

So God laid down some parameters for Satan to operate within and even collaborates with him like in the example of Job.

Okay.

At best an uneasy collaboration, I'm sure. Particularly for Satan, since his days are numbered.

Oh, most indubitably.


It's no sweat off of God's back. He is responsible after all.

So, what got you to change your tune?

I think we would still argue about exactly what God is responsible for.
Creating intelligent beings with free will? Yes.
Allowing sufficient time for major issues to be settled? Yes.
Exercising patience? Yes.
Probably a few other things.