128
   

How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 07:26 am
@fresco,
Hey, Fresco...this is fun using RL as a conduit to carry notes. Brings me back to the time when I was in grammar school. Thanks for starting it.

Wink
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 04:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:


TO REASONING LOGIC:

Frank (moi!) continues to suppose that he does not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence...or just about anything else going on here...and is ethical enough to simply acknowledge that...in sharp contrast to someone like Fresco who pretend that he does know.


This is your conclusion? It was not mine. He seems to have a problem with your use of the words "true nature of reality? Do you know why? Does reality have a nature? What is reality beyond a social construct?

Quote:
.in sharp contrast to someone like Fresco who pretend that he does know

Do you really think he has claimed to know the true nature of reality? If so where has he made this claim?

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 04:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
By the way Frank I found your use of logic to be be very inspirational. I can not recall the time but you were fabulous and expressed your understanding way more coherently than what i could have.

I also find that Fresco has a treasure-chest of knowledge that should be considered. Idea
fresco
 
  2  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 05:05 pm
@reasoning logic,
Point of information:
The phrase "true nature of reality" is meaningless to pragmatists.
The reasons are well argued in this Rorty lecture. (from appx 13 mins in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjhVk-0Vhmk
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 05:13 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:


TO REASONING LOGIC:

Frank (moi!) continues to suppose that he does not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence...or just about anything else going on here...and is ethical enough to simply acknowledge that...in sharp contrast to someone like Fresco who pretend that he does know.


This is your conclusion? It was not mine. He seems to have a problem with your use of the words "true nature of reality? Do you know why? Does reality have a nature? What is reality beyond a social construct?

Quote:
.in sharp contrast to someone like Fresco who pretend that he does know

Do you really think he has claimed to know the true nature of reality? If so where has he made this claim?


When Fresco tells us what it is not...he is, in effect, telling us he knows what it is. You cannot logically rule anything out...if you do not know what it is.

In any case, I refer you to my response to my next response to Fresco.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 05:14 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

By the way Frank I found your use of logic to be be very inspirational. I can not recall the time but you were fabulous and expressed your understanding way more coherently than what i could have.

I also find that Fresco has a treasure-chest of knowledge that should be considered. Idea


Thank you, RL.

I also find Fresco to be a font of knowledge.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 05:16 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Point of information:
The phrase "true nature of reality" is meaningless to pragmatists.


That is a considerable distance from the assertion:

"The phrase "true nature of reality" is meaningless!



Quote:

The reasons are well argued in this Rorty lecture. (from appx 13 mins in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjhVk-0Vhmk


When Rorty comes here to discuss this, we can take up what he offers.



reasoning logic
 
  2  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 05:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
When Rorty comes here to discuss this, we can take up what he offers


Are you serious? You will not take the short amount time that fresco shared to see if it makes sense? Why?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 06:31 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
When Rorty comes here to discuss this, we can take up what he offers


Are you serious? You will not take the short amount time that fresco shared to see if it makes sense? Why?


For the same reason I will not take the short time theists often tell me I ought spend asking god to give me assurances of his being!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 06:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
For the same reason I will not take the short time theists often tell me I ought spend asking god to give me assurances of his being!


So you compare the the ideas of agnostics to those of theists?
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 10:39 pm
@reasoning logic,
Why would you ask that question?, reasoning logic.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 12:56 am
@reasoning logic,
RL.
Surely you don't think Frank has the inclination to stick his head out of the bunker after many years carefully constructing it out of "the Emperor's New Straw "? Why would he want to listen to Rorty giving a balanced argument in favor of the coherence of pragmatism over realism ? He is no fool despite his ingenious lip service to "not being the sharpest tool", and deep down he may suspect he has been talking waffle for all these years. So the best defense is wild attack :
"Bring out Rorty (from the dead Wink ) so I can tell him he MIGHT only be guessing ", he cries !
- to which the ghost of Rorty replies:. "Oh dear ! You weren't listening were you Frank !".
fresco
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 01:17 am
@reasoning logic,
TYPO
...ingenuous lip service....
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 08:30 am
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
For the same reason I will not take the short time theists often tell me I ought spend asking god to give me assurances of his being!


So you compare the the ideas of agnostics to those of theists?


The question does not make sense to me, RL. I don't see any connection with what I said...and it.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 08:32 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

RL.
Surely you don't think Frank has the inclination to stick his head out of the bunker after many years carefully constructing it out of "the Emperor's New Straw "? Why would he want to listen to Rorty giving a balanced argument in favor of the coherence of pragmatism over realism ? He is no fool despite his ingenious lip service to "not being the sharpest tool", and deep down he may suspect he has been talking waffle for all these years. So the best defense is wild attack :
"Bring out Rorty (from the dead Wink ) so I can tell him he MIGHT only be guessing ", he cries !
- to which the ghost of Rorty replies:. "Oh dear ! You weren't listening were you Frank !".



If you have something to say based on what you read, Fresco...you can present it. And, when you are not just showing off...you can do so coherently.

I am open to damn near all ideas and possibilities...the closed mind is yours.

BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 08:46 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I am open to damn near all ideas and possibilities...the closed mind is yours.


Yes indeed, any fantasy that the mind of man can dream up you are open to as after all you can not disproved a negative and your ability to assign probability filtering to fantasies seem completely missing.

Must be like going through life always on an LSD trip.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 09:08 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I am open to damn near all ideas and possibilities...the closed mind is yours.


Yes indeed, any fantasy that the mind of man can dream up you are open to as after all you can not disproved a negative and your ability to assign probability filtering to fantasies seem completely missing.


I filter fantasies, Bill...but I am willing to at least consider some of the really off-the-wall ideas. That is why I continue to read your rants!

Quote:
Must be like going through life always on an LSD trip.


I've never done LSD. Tell me what it is like...and I'll tell you if your analogy is reasonable. (Is that why you are so bizarre in your thinking?)
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 11:50 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I've never done LSD. Tell me what it is like...and I'll tell you if your analogy is reasonable. (Is that why you are so bizarre in your thinking?)


You seem have a brain that does not related very well to the real universe as in someone using a drugs such as LSD.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD

LSD causes an altered sensory experience of senses, emotions, memories, time, and awareness for 6 to 14 hours, depending on dosage and tolerance. Generally beginning within thirty to ninety minutes after ingestion, the user may experience anything from subtle changes in perception to overwhelming cognitive shifts. Changes in auditory and visual perception are typical.[19][21] Visual effects include the illusion of movement of static surfaces ("walls breathing"), after image-like trails of moving objects ("tracers"), the appearance of moving colored geometric patterns (especially with closed eyes), an intensification of colors and brightness ("sparkling"), new textures on objects, blurred vision, and shape suggestibility. Users commonly report that the inanimate world appears to animate in an unexplainable way; for instance, objects that are static in three dimensions can seem to be moving relative to one or more additional spatial dimensions.[22] Many of the basic visual effects resemble the phosphenes seen after applying pressure to the eye and have also been studied under the name "form constants". The auditory effects of LSD may include echo-like distortions of sounds, changes in ability to discern concurrent auditory stimuli, and a general intensification of the experience of music. Higher doses often cause intense and fundamental distortions of sensory perception such as synaesthesia, the experience of additional spatial or temporal dimensions, and temporary dissociation.
Potential uses
Quote:
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 01:43 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
I've never done LSD. Tell me what it is like...and I'll tell you if your analogy is reasonable. (Is that why you are so bizarre in your thinking?)


You seem have a brain that does not related very well to the real universe as in someone using a drugs such as LSD.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD

LSD causes an altered sensory experience of senses, emotions, memories, time, and awareness for 6 to 14 hours, depending on dosage and tolerance. Generally beginning within thirty to ninety minutes after ingestion, the user may experience anything from subtle changes in perception to overwhelming cognitive shifts. Changes in auditory and visual perception are typical.[19][21] Visual effects include the illusion of movement of static surfaces ("walls breathing"), after image-like trails of moving objects ("tracers"), the appearance of moving colored geometric patterns (especially with closed eyes), an intensification of colors and brightness ("sparkling"), new textures on objects, blurred vision, and shape suggestibility. Users commonly report that the inanimate world appears to animate in an unexplainable way; for instance, objects that are static in three dimensions can seem to be moving relative to one or more additional spatial dimensions.[22] Many of the basic visual effects resemble the phosphenes seen after applying pressure to the eye and have also been studied under the name "form constants". The auditory effects of LSD may include echo-like distortions of sounds, changes in ability to discern concurrent auditory stimuli, and a general intensification of the experience of music. Higher doses often cause intense and fundamental distortions of sensory perception such as synaesthesia, the experience of additional spatial or temporal dimensions, and temporary dissociation.
Potential uses
Quote:



So...is that what it felt like when you did it?
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 02:22 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
So...is that what it felt like when you did it?


That the best you can come up with?

LOL sorry unlike you I like my mind working in a rational manner and do not use either the "drug" of religion/fantasies or any other type of drug to change that rational working.

In my home at the moment I have a number of bottles of outdated pain pills prescribed to me after having operations over the years that I have never use more then one or two pills out of any of those bottles.

I never found the feelings of having a wall between me and the real universe that pain pills cause enjoyable and had found that I prefer pain to those feelings.
 

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