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How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 02:34 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
So...is that what it felt like when you did it?


That the best you can come up with?


Not the best by far...but I am dealing with you...and I don't care enough to send the very best.



Quote:
LOL sorry unlike you I like my mind working in a rational manner and do not use either the "drug" of religion/fantasies or any other type of drug to change that rational working.


Frankly, you don't sound all that rational. Maybe you ought to try drugs.

Quote:
In my home at the moment I have a number of bottles of outdated pain pills prescribed to me after having operations over the years that I have never use more then one or two pills out of any of those bottles.


That is very interesting. Thank you for sharing it.

Quote:
I never found the feelings of having a wall between me and the real universe that pain pills cause enjoyable and had found that I prefer pain to those feelings.


And that also.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 04:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I think that many of us have resorted to name calling. What I would like to hear are rebuttals without emotional outburst. I think all of you have something of value to share but I do think the value may be easier accepted when it comes in a nicer way..

Fresco could you please explain in the most coherent way you know, "why you have a problem with "Is" is what it is"?

I plan to take more time and review what you shared in your videos but I will be honest and have been busy working. I will re watch one as I am slow learning and watch the last one for the first time this weekend.
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 04:46 pm
@reasoning logic,
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 04:48 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

I think that many of us have resorted to name calling. What I would like to hear are rebuttals without emotional outburst. I think all of you have something of value to share but I do think the value may be easier accepted when it comes in a nicer way..


I am nice.

My point is...and has always been...that whatever is happening here...NO MATTER WHAT...

...is what is happening.

Whatever IS...is what IS.

Somehow, Fresco considers me to be of poor intelligence for not seeing that I am wrong.

We have been doing variations on this discussion for a decade or so RL.

If you will listen to what Fresco has to say in rebuttal to what I have just said...

...and translate it into understandable English...

...I will be delighted to have a conversation with you about it.

My conversations with Fresco on it will probably not change appreciably from what they have been for that decade.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 04:56 pm
@anonymously99stwin,
You seem so smart, Thank you for sharing. Wink
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 04:59 pm
@reasoning logic,
The phrase "what IS-IS" begs the question about the meaning of the terms "being" and "reality" by assuming that the latter has status independent of observers (aka naive realism). Pragmatists argue that "reality" is a social construction insofar that it can have no meaning other than what humans agree "to be the case" in particular co-operative contexts of common need constantly open to historical revision. (The argument is expanded in the Rorty clip).

In addition to the claim by pragmatists for a more coherent position than that of naive realism, there are at least three other nails in the coffin of the absolutist "IS" phrase.

1. Arguments by philosophers of language, particularly Wittgenstein, Quine and Sellers, that words are not fixed in their meaning but are always relative to context. ( A simplistic way to understand this is to think of words like currency banknotes whose "value" depends on transactional context rather than on the digits printed on them).
2. Arguments that the verb "to be" is so endemically ambiguous that the banning of its usage in favor of a neologism called "e-prime" has been attempted.
3. General existential arguments about the impermanent nature of "being" by Heidegger, Sartre and assorted Postmodernists.

All these rebuttals of absolutist statements, like the one above, are aspects of the modern philosophical trend called "anti-foundationalism" which has as a central tenet that we can never establish any fixed substrate on which to base what we call "knowledge". In short any attempt at "indubility" (as for example Descartes cogito) is futile.

IMO Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is the formal expression of anti-foundationalism.
0 Replies
 
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:06 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa. What if fresco is messing with you? Fresco could be. Just to get you roused up. That may be a turn on for fresco. I personally would be careful thinking that it is a possibility that it be a turn on for fresco. You shouldn't want to turn fresco on. I would want to turn him off by making him think I don't get aggravated which in turn makes me feel good deeply within so in the end I'm not aggravated as he wishes but he is aggravated. Works to your advantage. Or are you testing me, or anyone who pays attention.

Or is what I mentioned able to be understood?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:13 pm
Your turn, RL. Wink
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:37 pm
@anonymously99stwin,
I'm losing my mind.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:37 pm
@Frank Apisa,
When you do come back, RL…I hope you pay particular attention to what Fresco wrote with:

Quote:
All these rebuttals of absolutist statements, like the one above, are aspects of the modern philosophical trend called "anti-foundationalism" which has as a central tenet that we can never establish any fixed substrate on which to base what we call "knowledge". In short any attempt at "indubility" (as for example Descartes cogito) is futile.


…and if you could, explain to me why, if that is what actually is the case….why it is not what IS.

Fresco, as I have mentioned innumerable times, simply is not able to get away from confusing and conflating “What IS”…with the ability of humans to understand and communicate about it.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Your turn, RL


I will have to re watch one of the videos that he shared on deconstruction and maybe a few more to see if I can gain a better understanding plus I need to watch the last video he shared. Just because I do not yet understand Fresco's point of view or understanding does not mean that I should discredit what he has shared, "do you think?

Fresco is no layman and his ideas should be pondered harder than useual in my opinion.

I remember when a neuroscientist shared the Monte hall problem with me and explained that 99.9% of the people could not get it including many intellectuals.

It took me quite some time to grasp how significant the difference in switching the doors was. I thought it was only to a small advantage.

Have you ever been so wrong in understanding something as I was?
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:40 pm
@Frank Apisa,
What IS is the same as belief. So you're telling us all you do believe after all.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:42 pm
@anonymously99stwin,
Join mine and Frank's club.
0 Replies
 
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:43 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
Quote:
Have you ever been so wrong in understanding something as I was?


anon wrote:
You may have lost your reasoning ability.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:48 pm
@anonymously99stwin,
anonymously99stwin wrote:

What IS is the same as belief. So you're telling us all you do believe after all.


I do not do believing, Anon.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:51 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
Your turn, RL


I will have to re watch one of the videos that he shared on deconstruction and maybe a few more to see if I can gain a better understanding plus I need to watch the last video he shared. Just because I do not yet understand Fresco's point of view or understanding does not mean that I should discredit what he has shared, "do you think?

Fresco is no layman and his ideas should be pondered harder than useual in my opinion.

I remember when a neuroscientist shared the Monte hall problem with me and explained that 99.9% of the people could not get it including many intellectuals.

It took me quite some time to grasp how significant the difference in switching the doors was. I thought it was only to a small advantage.

Have you ever been so wrong in understanding something as I was?


Take your time, RL...I am not in a hurry.

Marilyn Von Savant explained the door problem in a very clear way...the first time I ever heard the problem.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:52 pm
@anonymously99stwin,
Quote:
You may have lost your reasoning ability.


If you happen to find it will you please return it?
fresco
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 05:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
…and if you could, explain to me why, if that is what actually is the case….why it is not what IS.

Because your word "actually" is indicative of your attempt at imposing a naive realistic transaction. That word has no status in terms of an ephemeral social agreement about greater paradigmatic coherence.
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 06:15 pm
@reasoning logic,
Are you expecting an answer?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 17 Jan, 2014 06:20 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
That word has no status in terms of an ephemeral social agreement about greater paradigmatic coherence.


Have you ever considered some of Einstein's quotes?


You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother. -- Albert Einstein......


 

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