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How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 03:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Read above.
Portuguese alone.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 10:00 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Actually, Fil, I noticed much progress in your English since you joined A2K.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 10:16 pm
@JLNobody,
It scares me to hear that... Wink
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 10:20 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Ahhh, that explains much.

Now, I have no idea of whether or not you are as verbose and, often times, incoherent when writing in Portuguese, and I very much respect your ability to converse in a language other than your native tongue, but here's a tip: Sometimes less is more.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 10:45 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
If you want my honest personal input on that I can be both verbose and surprising, but then again we all can do that I am sure...
And yes I could take a far less risky, more classic approach, to opinion making, but often I rather take the leap and speak my intuition away even on somewhat shaky grounds...I have a particular dislike of common views or the establishment thinking, not just because its full of prejudice and pre conceptions or facile assumptions, but emotionally because its an easy way to shine without personal exposure...I do much value personal open opinion as the most honest form of producing ideas worth listening, sometimes that can prove troublesome...I grant I should be more organized.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 11:05 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Nothing wrong with being surprising, or intuitive, and there is certainly nothing wrong with challenging established modes of thinking.

And, I suppose, there is nothing "wrong" with expressing oneself in the fashion of Class 5 rapids, unless of course one cares to be understood and not simply admired.

But hey, some people like Rococo.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 11:59 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
But hey, some people like Rococo.
Mr. Green Wink fair, fair...
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 05:26 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I have been reading many threads because all of you have been posting so many things for me to think about and I have not had much time to respond but I did want to respond to this now that the week is over for me. Very Happy

Quote:
our brains are hardwired to see patterns where sometimes there is none..as far as I know the tale, such competence is justified in an evolutionary advantage...while believing will prone you to action doubt and hesitation might get you in big trouble...Religion is one of the cultural expressions of our intrinsic hard wiring to believe the invisible,


Yes this seems to be true and have an advantage but it may only be to degree.

Quote:
It is not a good idea to doubt there is a Lion in the high grass even if it might be just the wind


Well this is where I see it a little different. I think that it is good to know that it could possibly be a lion but could you imagine if we went with that thinking every time the wind blew? Would we not be a mental basket case?

I think that it is good to be cautious about reality that is possible but to believe in things that we have not seen? I am afraid that it may be more Likely something we have been taught to believe by our ancestors of the past who may have had delusions or mental illnesses.




0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sat 20 Apr, 2013 08:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I cannot think of any way at all...except to inappropriately define all religions as being wrong.


Do you have any empirical evidence to your claim that one would have to state or inappropriately define all religions as being wrong?


fresco
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 02:30 am
@reasoning logic,
Thank you for reminding me of that Dawkins programme.

IMO What Dawkins fails to take into account is an argument for the sociological forces which drive both scientific activities and religion. In other words, the concept of "scientific evidence" is itself insufficient to counter religious viruses (sic) even if it is at odds with particular religious narratives. Nowhere (as far as I know) do we find Dawkins looking into the socialization role of human language, say and symbolization as a unique human for both "narrative" and "evidence". This is why I favor social parameters over scientific ones in the conclusion that religions are "wrong", in the sense that they historically operate to exacerbate group aggression. Dawkins appears naive in this programme because he fails to understand that religious individuals concepts of "self" are co-extensive with their "belief", and hence an attack on belief is a personal attack.

The idea of a "top down" approach which encompasses both "science" and "religious belief" has been argued for by such writers as Fritjof Capra in his book "The Web of Life" 1978. No deities are required by his "systems analysis" yet nor is his analysis devoid of the possibility of "spirituality" in the sense that it leaves open the question of "the nature of consciousness".
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 02:34 am
@reasoning logic,
I'll stick with my answer, RL.

Sounds as though you are getting frustrated.

The only way I can be sure (and I am assuming that to be "the only way we can be sure) that all religions are wrong...is to define them all as wrong.
fresco
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 02:39 am
@Frank Apisa,
...and maybe that's because that "I" refuses to look over the sides of that comfortable agnostic pit it has made its bed in, and use its brain !
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 11:43 am
@fresco,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5308554)
...and maybe that's because that "I" refuses to look over the sides of that comfortable agnostic pit it has made its bed in, and use its brain !


If that was an attempt at an insult...or at sarcasm...it failed.

Try stepping outside your belief system, Fresco.
seldon
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 12:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
god is out of feel and we cant prove him ,neither existence nor inexistence
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 12:28 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank, do you think that you ever step outside of your belief system?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 01:15 pm
@JLNobody,
Quote:
Frank, do you think that you ever step outside of your belief system?


That is a good question, I wonder if Frank has ever stepped from behind his agnostic, bully, pulpit. Laughing
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 01:19 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
Nowhere (as far as I know) do we find Dawkins looking into the socialization role of human language, say and symbolization as a unique human for both "narrative" and "evidence". This is why I favor social parameters over scientific ones in the conclusion that religions are "wrong", in the sense that they historically operate to exacerbate group aggression. Dawkins appears naive in this programme because he fails to understand that religious individuals concepts of "self" are co-extensive with their "belief", and hence an attack on belief is a personal attack.


I do not think that he can know all the issues involved but I would like to think that he would consider ideas such as what you put forward but then again he may leave that up to the sociologists to understand.

I realize that he studied animal behavior but he seemed to take a different path than many others.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 01:28 pm
@JLNobody,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5308782)
Frank, do you think that you ever step outside of your belief system?


I do not do believing, JL. If you are asking if I ever question my guesses...

...YES...many times over.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 01:29 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Re: JLNobody (Post 5308816)
Quote:
Frank, do you think that you ever step outside of your belief system?

Quote:
That is a good question, I wonder if Frank has ever stepped from behind his agnostic, bully, pulpit.


Same answer as above, RL.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Sun 21 Apr, 2013 01:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I do not do believing, JL. If you are asking if I ever question my guesses...

...YES...many times over.


Do you believe, guess or know you question your guesses many times over?
 

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