How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

@reasoning logic,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5308864)
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I do not do believing, JL. If you are asking if I ever question my guesses...

...YES...many times over.
Do you believe, guess or know you question your guesses many times over?

I know that I do.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5308782)
Frank, do you think that you ever step outside of your belief system?

I do not do believing, JL. If you are asking if I ever question my guesses...

...YES...many times over.

Why if both alternatives to be examined by the 'one who is guessing' are equally likely in the case of the ones where there is no evidence? If you say it's not for 'those' guesses then please make that clear because it's only those guesses we are interested in and to jump between one class of guess and another just confuses the issue when we are only interested in the guesses about e.g. god and reality and self etc...

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@igm,

Interesting questions, igm. Let’s take this slowly…bit by bit.

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Why if both alternatives to be examined by the 'one who is guessing' are equally likely in the case of the ones where there is no evidence?

What is the "equally likely" reference here?

Are you of the opinion that things have to be "equally likely" in order for something to be a guess?

And do you think that you can always determine the likelihood of things among which (or between which) you are to make a guess?

Let me state my position on the questions I’ve asked:

I have no idea of the likelihood of the existence of gods versus the likelihood of the non-existence of gods…so I have no way of assessing which is more or less likely…nor by how much.

But if the likelihood of one over the other could be determined…I cannot imagine how I would determine what the distance between the two would have to be before a guess would no longer be a guess.

And even if the odds could move to a point where I would say I could make an informed guess…would an informed guess, still not be a guess?

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@Frank Apisa,

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I know that I do.

Isn't it nice to be able to know some things without having to guess about them?

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@reasoning logic,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5308881)
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I know that I do.

Isn't it nice to be able to know some things without having to guess about them?

Have I ever said or intimated otherwise????

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

And even if the odds could move to a point where I would say I could make an informed guess…would an informed guess, still not be a guess?

It's your definition Frank, not mine. I'd say you can define it however you wish.

Personally, I'd say that the prefixed adjective 'informed' adds to the meaning of guess with the amount of information over and above a blind guess making it informed rather than blind (always supposing that the information was correct and not erroneous).

I still say that your position that you're not willing to guess there are no gods is influenced by theists who have no evidence for their assertion that there is a god. You have therefore been influenced by their assertion to the point where you will not rule out entirely that the 'concept' god that theists have created may actually turn out to be true. That's a step too far for most non-theists.

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@igm,

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I still say that your position that you're not willing to guess there are no gods is influenced by theists who have no evidence for their assertion that there is a god.

My unwilling to guess is influenced by common sense, igm. I simply do not know if gods exist...and I see no unambiguous evidence that leads me to a "they cannot exist" position.

I may be GOD...and you also. We may share a single mind...that of a single entity...which must, in my opinion, be considered GOD.

Unless I am able to come up with evidence that indicates the existence of gods is impossible...or extremely unlikely...I cannot make that guess.

I sincerely question how you can.

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You have therefore been influenced by their assertion to the point where you will not rule out entirely that the 'concept' god that theists have created may actually turn out to be true. That's a step too far for most non-theists.

That may be...but it is to their disadvantage that it is a step too far, because I see my perspective as the logical default position.

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@Frank Apisa,

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Have I ever said or intimated otherwise????

Well to be honest, I think that I know that there are no elves doing your ears but you seem to think I could be wrong. Laughing

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@reasoning logic,

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Well to be honest, I think that I know that there are no elves doing your ears but you seem to think I could be wrong.

I wish people like you would stop this nonsense, RL. It is beneath you...and comes perilously close to lying.

Quote exactly what I said that could be construed the way you are suggesting.

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@Frank Apisa,

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Quote exactly what I said that could be construed the way you are suggesting.

Frank even though I was being honest can you not find the humor in my reply?

I vaule you as a freind so I will not take it any further than what I have. Smile

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I see my perspective as the logical default position.

The default is how things appear to you 'excluding' the concepts of others i.e. mere appearances. One adds to that when one asserts or denies that there is a concept 'god'. Then it is added to again when one holds the position that you hold. That's not the logical default position because it relies on others' concepts.

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@reasoning logic,

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Frank even though I was being honest can you not find the humor in my reply?

I vaule as a freind to take it any rurther than what I have.

I can find humor in almost anything, RL. I laugh more than almost anyone else I know...and a smile is regularly on my face. That is something mentioned to me often.

But you and a couple others here are determined to mock my position...and to portray it with a straw man manipulation.

Leave it if you will...and I appreciate that. Best you do the "leaving" before the provocation, though!

And make no mistake about it...I was being HONEST in my response.

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@igm,

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The default is how things appear to you 'excluding' the concepts of others i.e. mere appearances.

Not sure I understand what you are saying here. My default position is that I do not know. And, igm...I simply do not know.

The notion of GODS seems very strange to me...but the notion of the Big Bang seems very strange also.

I am not willing to rule out any possibility.

You might ask yourself why you are willing to do so...and why you seem so uncomfortable with me doing it.

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One adds to that when one asserts or denies that there is a concept 'god'. Then it is added to again when one holds the position that you hold. That's not the logical default position because it relies on others' concepts.

Once again...I am not sure of what you are saying here.

But I repeat:

My default position is that I do not know. And, igm...I simply do not know.

The notion of GODS seems very strange to me...but the notion of the Big Bang seems very strange also.

I am not willing to rule out any possibility.

You might ask yourself why you are willing to do so...and why you seem so uncomfortable with me doing it.

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@Frank Apisa,

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But you and a couple others here are determined to mock my position

Frank please understand that I find you to be more learned than me in some of what you share and please try not to find my questiong as mockery but rather having fun undertsnding reality. You will agree that we all get reality wrong wont you?

Have fun on mybehalf with some of the bizzarr things I may say but I think that I know you well enough that you are not trying to cause harm to me or others in your humors replies if you do try to find humor in them.

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@reasoning logic,

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Frank please understand that I find you to be more learned than me in some of what you share and please try not to find my questiong as mockery but rather having fun undertsnding reality. You will agree that we all get reality wrong wont you?

Have fun on mybehalf with some of the bizzarr things I may say but I think that I know you well enough that you are not trying to cause harm to me or others in your humors replies if you do try to find humor in them.

Lemme see if I can inject some humor into my reply.

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You will agree that we all get reality wrong wont you?

RESPONSE: Beats the **** out of me. I do not know the true nature of REALITY...so I never know if I, or anyone else, is getting anything right or wrong.

(How'd I do?)

Anyway...I suspect most of us are getting a lot more wrong...than right. The entire notion of existence...the notion that we all ARE...is so confusing, mysteri0us, AND INTERESTING...

...that it amazes me when some friends in non-cyber life find it dull or uninteresting.

That's why I am so anxious to get home to my computer each day...so I can discuss this stuff with youse peoples.

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@Frank Apisa,

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That's why I am so anxious to get home to my computer each day...so I can discuss this stuff with youse peoples.

Welcome to the the club of being intellectually different. Very Happy

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@Frank Apisa,

As you don't understand my post then of course your reply is perfectly acceptable... but only if you don't understand my post Wink

...

... If you understood it then it would not Wink

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@igm,

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Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5309625)
As you don't understand my post then of course your reply is perfectly acceptable... but only if you don't understand my post ...

... If you understood it then it would not

That I understand! Wink

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@Frank Apisa,

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Lemme see if I can inject some humor into my reply.

I find you to be humors at times and I think you mean it that way but I also find you to be serious at times and was curious what your serious view of this might be.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89846239

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How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

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