How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

@Frank Apisa,

Start with Romans 1:16-23

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@Frank Apisa,

Faith Frank. That is what you need Faith.Faith in God and what his word says:

@Jasper10,

An analogy.Imagine yourself sitting on a fence listening to two opposing arguments either side of the fence.The left side of the fence says there is no God.The right side of the fence says there is a God.Both reasonings are equal but opposite in every aspect.As you keep listening you notice that the left side of the fence is now saying there is a God and the right side of the fence is saying there is no God.You therefore conclude that neither side of the fence knows whether there is a God or not.You decide to make your own decision by Faith whilst remaining sitting on the fence.

1 Reply

@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

An analogy.Imagine yourself sitting on a fence listening to two opposing arguments either side of the fence.The left side of the fence says there is no God.The right side of the fence says there is a God.Both reasonings are equal but opposite in every aspect.As you keep listening you notice that the left side of the fence is now saying there is a God and the right side of the fence is saying there is no God.You therefore conclude that neither side of the fence knows whether there is a God or not.You decide to make your own decision by Faith whilst remaining sitting on the fence.

That is not faith...it is blind guessing.

Of course you can make a blind guess that there is a GOD...and you can make a blind guess that the GOD reveals itself...and you can make a blind guess that the god has rules of conduct for the dominant beings on a nondescript rock circling a nondescript sun in a nondescript galaxy among hundreds of billions of galaxies.

Nothing whatever wrong with making blind guesses.

You and Neal apparently are so enamored of your blind guesses...you now want to consider them more than blind guesses.

They are not.

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@Frank Apisa,

OK, so you have more than a bit of an issue with the word FAITH.

At least we have narrowed it down now.

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@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

OK, so you have more than a bit of an issue with the word FAITH.

At least we have narrowed it down now.

"Belief" is a word religious people use in place of blind guess, but in the end, a religious "belief" is nothing more than a blind guess, Jasper.

"Faith" is a word religious people use in place of "I insist my blind guess is correct."

Nothing wrong with making blind guesses...and if one wants to hide a blind guess by calling it a "belief"...no big deal.

I am merely pointing out that a religious "belief" is a blind guess...and that is the way I am treating it in conversations about religion.

Nothing especially wrong with being pig-headed about one's blind guesses either. If you want to insist your blind guesses are correct...be my guest. And nothing wrong with calling that pig-headed insistence "faith" either.

I am merely pointing out that when I see someone pig-headedly insisting that his/her blind guesses ARE CORRECT...I am going to call them out on their pig-headedness...even if they call their pig-headedness "faith."

Said another way, I do not consider "faith" to be a virtue. I consider it to be a personality failing.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank there either is a GOD or there isn't a GOD. That isn't a blind guess. It's a TRUE statement.Once again your logic is flawed.

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@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

Frank there either is a GOD or there isn't a GOD. That isn't a blind guess. It's a TRUE statement.Once again your logic is flawed.

If you weren't so mentally challenged, I am sure you would have written, either there is at least one god...or there are none.

I would have agreed with that. I have been agreeing with that all along. I have agreed with that for decades...at least eight of them. There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that there either is at least one god...or there are no gods.

The question of whether there is at least one god or none...HAS NEVER BEEN IN QUESTION.

The reason you are inventing that issue and pretending it indicates a flaw in my logic...is because I am kicking the snot out of you on this issue and you are getting desperate.

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@Frank Apisa,

Even when I disagree with you Frank, you have a nuanced argument that "evolves" some over the years. In my mind that puts you in the top tier of people I want to listen to and talk with.

You keep telling him its your opinion and why its your opinion and he keeps going for a hammer and chisel. You're stating informed opinion, he's dragging out someone else's dogma and poorly.

You're open minded, but no pushover. In the at least 20 years I've known you you've managed to stay true.

BTW: still golfing?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

You can only HOPE that there is or isn't a God Frank.
Are you HOPING that there is or are you HOPING that there isn't? or don't you care?

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@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Even when I disagree with you Frank, you have a nuanced argument that "evolves" some over the years. In my mind that puts you in the top tier of people I want to listen to and talk with.

You keep telling him its your opinion and why its your opinion and he keeps going for a hammer and chisel. You're stating informed opinion, he's dragging out someone else's dogma and poorly.

You're open minded, but no pushover. In the at least 20 years I've known you you've managed to stay true.

BTW: still golfing?

Thanks for the comments, B.

Not golfing this year. Costs too much if I do not work (free golf is one of the perks)...and I am not willing to work. Starters have to clean golf carts...and I'm too old to take a chance with that.

1 Reply

@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

You can only HOPE that there is or isn't a God Frank.

I can hope to get laid, Jasper. I can hope the Giants win at least one game before they shut down the NFL season. I can hope I go one ******* night without getting up to piss two or three times.

There is no need for me to hope there is a god...or hope there are no gods.

Quote:

Are you HOPING that there is or are you HOPING that there isn't? or don't you care?

If there is at least one god...or if there are no gods...makes no difference to me at all. I am not hoping one way or the other.

When are you going to answer my questions, Jasper...or is your fear of them so great you will not even give it an attempt?

1 Reply

@Jasper10,

Quote:

Frank there either is a GOD or there isn't a GOD. That isn't a blind guess. It's a TRUE statement.Once again your logic is flawed.

If "there either is a GOD or there isn't a GOD", it has nothing to do with logic, you can believe in him or not whether "there ... is a GOD or there isn't a GOD".

G*d was never meant to be proven, He was meant to accepted through the testimony of the Spirit. That's what free will is about.

Franks got his testimony, I've got mine, you've got yours.

But nowhere in the Bible have I read that Christ said, "Take the church or your testimony and club everyone else into submission with it."

Butted in, now I'll butt out. The problem I have with these threads as a believer myself is they offer up an unhealthy opportunity to passively/aggressively beat others with dogma. I think that ultimately works against the church and at least against the stated goal of some Christians supposedly sharing their testimony.

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@Frank Apisa,

There are sacrifices to be made to become a village elder, especially in a pandemic.

Here's to the better times to come, to life!

I quit golf when I made made a hole in one. Unfortunately it was into the cup of the hole we just came off.

1 Reply

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

There are sacrifices to be made to become a village elder, especially in a pandemic.

Here's to the better times to come, to life!

I quit golf when I made made a hole in one. Unfortunately it was into the cup of the hole we just came off.

L'chaim.

I made a Hole in One at Ashbrook CC on August 15, 1989. I was using a 7 iron (Staff blade) on a 157 yard hole...wearing Footjoy shoes...and had on a Titleist glove.

Just another day of golf!

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@Frank Apisa,

ok Frank, at least we are in agreement (I think) that no one can PROVE one way or the other that there is or isn't a GOD and some people couldn't care less about HOPING that there is or isn't a GOD.SAD but fair enough.Thanks for the debate Frank. I forgive you for all the insults by the way.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I made a Hole in One at Ashbrook CC on August 15, 1989. I was using a 7 iron (Staff blade) on a 157 yard hole...wearing Footjoy shoes...and had on a Titleist glove.

Just another day of golf!

Sure. Rub it in.

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@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

ok Frank, at least we are in agreement (I think) that no one can PROVE one way or the other that there is or isn't a GOD and some people couldn't care less about HOPING that there is or isn't a GOD.SAD but fair enough.Thanks for the debate Frank. I forgive you for all the insults by the way.

Does that mean you are going to continue to hide from the questions?

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@Frank Apisa,

I’m not hiding Frank.I am open and as honest as I can be.I am not foolish enough to say or think there is no God as atheists do when we know that they can’t PROVE it.They can only HOPE that there isn’t.That much is established.We’ll end up sparring again Frank I’m sure.

1 Reply

@Jasper10,

Jasper10 wrote:

I’m not hiding Frank.I am open and as honest as I can be.I am not foolish enough to say or think there is no God as atheists do when we know that they can’t PROVE it.They can only HOPE that there isn’t.That much is established.We’ll end up sparring again Frank I’m sure.

Okay...so you are going to hide from the questions.

Not sure why!

1 Reply

How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

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