Have anyone else taken note concerning the Boy Scouts

@BillRM,

Quote:

Now would anyone care to address the issue of a group roughly the same size as gays being ban from the scouts for religion reasons or not?

that size being what exactly? among adult males that gay rate is 1-3% depending on who is counting, with youth who often dont know what they are the rate must be far less than 1%. I think that if a group wants to exclude the less than 1% so that the 99+ feels more safe then we should seriously consider the matter.

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re Hawkeye:
What makes you think it's 99% who'd "feel more safe"? Have you been looking at opinion polls for the last few years? Something like 80% of the populace thought gays should serve in the military, support for gay marriage is over 50% and rising, And support is far higher among people under 35, who are much more likely to haver or know gay friends and relatives, and don't give two whoops they're gay. Which means that it's pretty sure that a substantial majority of the country is not going to care whether or not a scout is gay. It's only the semi-senile old farts in Scouting HQ in Texas, and the fossilized Mormon hierarchy who care so much. And you, I guess. You're too old to be a Scout.

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@MontereyJack,

we learned macrame . We made a fishing net and some nice curtains for the cabin.

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Apples and oranges, here, Bill.

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@barbieNony66,

Why is it apple and oranges in your opinion?

I myself could as a young man no more make myself believe in some supernatural being IE a god then a gay person can turn himself straight in order to be a scout.

Seems odd for a organization that is supposed to be set up to benefit young men and to teach them moral behaviors is instead teaching them that it is alright to do shunning of people that do not fall into the mainspring of society in one way or another.

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@BillRM,

As I recall when I was in the scouts years ago an allegiance to God was always part of the oath. In those days I was not concerned about it either way so I just ignored it and got along fine. I was a scoutmaster for a few years when my son was in the scouts. It's always been there.

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@PUNKEY,

Quote:

Is having sex with a child the same thing as forcing (or not forcing) a child to pray with you?

Being gay and having sex with children are two very different things. One very wrong and the other a matter of who one is.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Seems odd for a organization that is supposed to be set up to benefit young men and to teach them moral behaviors is instead teaching them that it is alright to do shunning of people that do not fall into the mainspring of society in one way or another.

That is a good point, but scouting is simply a reflection of our society as a whole. It's not easy living in this society being a non-Christian. But, scouting does teach other moral virtues that should not be overlooked. That said, if they had made a point of my religious beliefs, I would just have walked away.

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@IRFRANK,

IRFRANK wrote:

Quote:
Is having sex with a child the same thing as forcing (or not forcing) a child to pray with you?

Being gay and having sex with children are two very different things. One very wrong and the other a matter of who one is.

The right of free association includes the right to exclude. If the current boy scouts wish to exclude gays and gays want to do that sort of thing then they are free to start their own group that is open to gays only or to all. We don't have the right to be anywhere we want. The right or wrongness of gaydom is irrelevant here.
.
My opinion here tracks my opinion of so called gay marriage...I am not convinced that excluding gays is the best choice bu we sure as **** have the right to do it. So long as the only arguement from gays is their alleged right to muscle in where they have never before been welcome then I say that they have no case.

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@hawkeye10,

You may be right about your freedom of association. I was just addressing the point that pedophile and being 'gay' are two entirely different things. Many people 'chose' not to associate with blacks 50 years ago and they were still wrong.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

The right of free association includes the right to exclude. If the current boy scouts wish to exclude gays and gays want to do that sort of thing then they are free to start their own group that is open to gays only or to all. We don't have the right to be anywhere we want. The right or wrongness of gaydom is irrelevant here.

Hawkeye an the boy scouts are free not to take any more extra benefits from governments at any level and to operated without a Federal charter for that matter.

If they wish to not deal with all citizens on an equal basic that is their rights and their shame however they do not have a claimed on low rents or other benefits from any level of government.

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@IRFRANK,

Quote:

As I recall when I was in the scouts years ago an allegiance to God was always part of the oath. In those days I was not concerned about it either way so I just ignored it and got along fine. I was a scoutmaster for a few years when my son was in the scouts. It's always been there.

The above facts of it being in the oath forever does not made it morally right and I am sure that there are a lot of gays as well as atheists who decided to take this morally wrong oath in bad faith.

Just as gays had needed to lied for many generations for the right to serve their nation.

Somehow having an oath that a fair percents of it members need to lie on to join kind of defeat the stated ideals of scouting right off the bat.

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@IRFRANK,

Quote:

but scouting is simply a reflection of our society as a whole

The same could had been said in regard to the KKK in the 1920s when they was a power in the land that still does not make it right or something that should not be fought.

http://imagecache5.art.com/LRG/37/3727/HIPAF00Z.jpg

Quote:

It's not easy living in this society being a non-Christian.

Take note the Scouts allow all kinds of non-Christians in including Hindus with their many gods.

You can believe in one god or the three in one Christian god or a few hundreds gods just not zero gods and be a Boy Scout.

Somehow and I do not frankly understand this they even allowed Buddhists to be scouts.

Seems you just have to believe in the supernatural in some way or in some manner.

Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Scouting#Boy_Scouts_of_America

The Boy Scouts of America has accepted Buddhist members and units since 1920, and also accepts members of various pantheistic faiths. Many Buddhists do not believe in a supreme being or creator deity, but because these beliefs are still religious and spiritual in nature, they are deemed acceptable by the BSA since their leaders subscribe to the BSA Declaration of Religious Principle

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

.I am not convinced that excluding gays is the best choice bu we sure as **** have the right to do it. So long as the only arguement from gays is their alleged right to muscle in where they have never before been welcome then I say that they have no case.

Kind of sound like sadly you would had fit in very nicely in the 1950s south my friend.

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With all the pressure toward removing the ban on gays being Boy Scouts there seems to be zero attention on the other group that is being ban from the Scouts IE atheists and agonists.

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@barbieNony66,

we also would gather wild flowers and press them in "memory books"

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@barbieNony66,

Stupid and annoying copy bot

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Somehow having an oath that a fair percents of it members need to lie on to join kind of defeat the stated ideals of scouting right off the bat.

This is true, however, most never give this "oath" ritual much thought. Now, it is being spotlighted with its possible inherent hypocrisy...asking us to swear to a god many do not believe in. It's almost like joining Congress, or in court etc where swearing on the bible is a "ritual." Many people taking the oath are non-religious but to get the deed over with we go along with our custom.

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@BillRM,

I was commenting that this is nothing new. I wasn't meaning to defend the position. I agree with you 100%.

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@BillRM,

I'm not sure why you get the idea that I am defending the Boy Scouts position. I am not.

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Have anyone else taken note concerning the Boy Scouts

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