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The Boy Scouts in the cross hairs

 
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 04:30 pm
EBP - You're pulling a bait-and-switch on me. I was not replying to your comments about the Connecticut case, as is clear by the quoted text from you to which I referred. You KNOW what you wrote, and you KNOW what it means. I have no beef with the Connecticut case or your position on it. You comments there seem reasonable and I agree with them, but my comments had nothing to do with those.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 04:48 pm
Fact is that the discrimination laws were modified to include homosexuals without a public vote. So I don't see why there's any issue with what's public and what isn't. The much larger percentage of the public doesn't support this.

This is much more a case of "Oh, you're politically incorrect, so you can't use public facilities."

Hammer on, BSA.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:19 pm
From the Boy Scouts of America webpage:

Quote:
Who Pays for Scouting?
Youth Members Assisted by their parents or guardians, boys in Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, and Varsity Scouting and young men and women in Venturing pay their share from personal savings and participation in money-earning projects.

Members buy their own uniforms, handbooks, and personal equipment and pay their own camp fees.

Packs, Troops, Teams, and Posts
Weekly or monthly dues and funds from approved money-earning projects meet expenses for supplies and activities in the Cub Scout pack, Boy Scout troop, Varsity Scout team, and Venturer crew. These monies help pay for camping equipment, registration fees, Boys' Life magazine, uniform insignia, special activities, and program materials.

Community Organizations
Each chartered organization using the Scouting program provides a meeting place and adult volunteer leadership for its BSA unit(s). The chartered organization and local council must approve unit money-earning projects before the launch of the project.

Local Council
Financial resources for the local council (the local nonprofit corporation chartered by the National Council) come from an annual Friends of Scouting (FOS) campaign, local United Ways, foundation grants, special events, project sales, investment income, trust funds, bequests, and gifts of real and personal property.

These funds provide for professional staff supervision, organization of new Scouting units, service for existing units, training of volunteer leaders, and maintenance of council camps. They also finance the operation of the local council service center, where volunteer leaders can obtain literature, insignia, advancement badges, and other items vital to the program. In addition, the service center maintains advancement and membership records.

National Organization
Funds to support the national organization of the Boy Scouts of America come from registration fees, local council service fees, investment income, Scouting and Boys' Life magazines, sale of uniforms and equipment, and contributions from individuals. These monies help to deliver the program of the BSA (through four regional service centers and more than 300 local councils) to chartered organizations that use the Scouting program to meet the needs of their youth.

The National Boy Scouts of America Foundation also provides funding for both local council needs and national organization initiatives. Most of this funding comes from specifically designated gifts made to the foundation by individuals, corporations, and foundations.

The national office

Provides local councils with program development and evaluation as well as camp and office planning, extensive financial counseling, planned giving and fund-raising information, and professional personnel support.

Coordinates a communications network through magazines and literature (handbooks, merit badge pamphlets, brochures, training materials, and professional development training) Creates a climate of positive understanding and support Makes available uniforms, equipment, and program supplies Administers national high-adventure bases and national events (jamborees, National Eagle Scout Association and Order of the Arrow conferences, and National Council meetings) Maintains communication with chartered organizations that use the Scouting program (religious institutions, PTA, civic organizations, labor unions, professional organizations, business, and industry) Maintains liaison with Scouting associations in other countries as a member of the World Scout Conference


Am I missing the part that says taxpayers are funding this organization?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:26 pm
at least in the San Diego case the Boy Scouts were getting free rent for facilities ($1) per year, from the city.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:29 pm
The Boy Scouts are one of the charities that recieves contributions from federal employees from CFC each year.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:35 pm
And the majority of Americans DON'T CARE.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:36 pm
Uh, it's charity, right? How does that equate to being public money? If I give money to the Red Cross, it doesn't go conditionally. It goes to them to do what they feel is best. That's what charity is. If they don't like where there charitable contributions are going, they can always change it.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:38 pm
Scrat wrote:
EBP - You're pulling a bait-and-switch on me. I was not replying to your comments about the Connecticut case, as is clear by the quoted text from you to which I referred. You KNOW what you wrote, and you KNOW what it means. I have no beef with the Connecticut case or your position on it. You comments there seem reasonable and I agree with them, but my comments had nothing to do with those.


I do know what I meant-- I should, I talk to myself all the time.

But anyway, now we agree, but you are no fun when you are being reasonable.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:43 pm
cjhsa wrote:
Fact is that the discrimination laws were modified to include homosexuals without a public vote. So I don't see why there's any issue with what's public and what isn't. The much larger percentage of the public doesn't support this.

This is much more a case of "Oh, you're politically incorrect, so you can't use public facilities."


Many laws that allowed discrimination were modified without a public vote. The Emancipation proclamation and Brown v. Board of Education are a couple of examples off the top of my head.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:45 pm
cjhsa wrote:
And the majority of Americans DON'T CARE.

Which is the shining example of why discrimination has been tolerated as long as it has. Failure to care is not a virtue!
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:48 pm
It's not failure to care, it's failure to care for the correct thing. The correct thing to care for here is the boys, not discrimination againsts gays.
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:52 pm
cjhsa wrote:
The correct thing to care for here is the boys...


I agree. That is why I don't think the Boy Scouts should discriminate against them.

(Here I am not saying they don't have the right to discriminate (they do)... now I am making a separate moral judgement that discrimination by a group with the mission of the Boy Scouts is wrong.)
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 05:53 pm
I think the gay agenda is without morals.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 06:29 pm
cjhsa wrote:
I think the gay agenda is without morals.



I think the conservative agenda is without morals.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 06:30 pm
I would say the same thing about the "anti-gay" agenda. The "gay agenda" isn't about hate and intolerance, its about love. I understand that love is considered immoral by those on the far right. Hate and intolerance, on the otehr hand, seem to be valued.Conservative Family values
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 06:32 pm
cjhsa wrote:
I think the gay agenda is without morals.


That doesn't make any sense.

Being against discrimination is an example of a moral.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 06:36 pm
And I think you're basing a moral on an immorality.
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 06:40 pm
Ollie North
Isn't he on some Boy Scout Board? If so, isn't he a wonderful role model for Boy Scouts?
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 06:40 pm
So you feel justified in hating a group just becasue you do not share their tastes? What possible authority have you to decide that people who love each other are "immoral?"
I quite frankly know of more gay couples who are good, loving, faithful partners and parents than I do heterosexual couples.
As for the "sanctity of marriage" arguement, well, I understand Britney Spears has gone on record supporting Bush and his little ammendment. Rolling Eyes
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ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 07:08 pm
cjhsa wrote:
And I think you're basing a moral on an immorality.


My morals are based on the ideals at the center of the Americn story -- Equality, "liberty and justice for all" and the "pursuit of happiness".

How are you defining "morals"?

You are spouting out a lot of general slogans expressing your dislike of homosexuals and we all understand this.

But you aren't saying very much to support your position on the question at hand-- Why should the State of Connecticut be forced to include an organization that practices discrimination in its charitable giving program?

How you feel personally about homosexuals or homosexuality has nothing to do with this question.
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