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Spain: Bombs Rip Through Train Stations At Rush Hour

 
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 10:21 am
the guy from Batasuna said it wasn't ETA. In fact they held a press conference to say this. Would they do this if they were lying?

Just listening to the radio. Blair thinks something similar will hit UK not if but when.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 10:27 am
It was interesting to read through this thread after listening to the radio throughout yesterday. You all went through the same steps and ideas as npr did.

Need to update myself.....
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 10:43 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
the guy from Batasuna said it wasn't ETA. In fact they held a press conference to say this. Would they do this if they were lying?


Yes - because I have sincere doubts believing anything is said shortly afterwards (especially when done such a person).
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 10:53 am
I just heard from my friend, it happened right outside his home - thank god he is fine....I am worried sick.

He has a very special place in my life, the first man to say the three magic words to me so you can imagine how worried I was...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 10:55 am
Good for you, Gautam, and even much better for your friend!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 10:58 am
Why I still think, it might have been ETA, is
- the material in the bombs was an explosive used in previous ETA attacks,
- the attacks were not suicide bombings, but were carried out using remote-controlled detonations - again similar to previous ETA operations,
- ETA has apparently tried to blow up trains travelling to Madrid before - a previous attack was foiled on Christmas Eve last year and two ETA suspects were arrested,
- the bombings came three days before the Spanish general election - and over many years, ETA has chosen to stage attacks during election campaigns.
(This is posted only, because everyone seems to look for reasons, why AQ should have done it.)



Spanish Foreign Minister Ana Palacio re-stated this afternoon the Spanish government's stance, saying: "Everything appears to indicate that this terrible carnage is the work of ETA."
She acknowledged the possibility that Islamic radicals were behind the attack, saying it was a hypothesis that the government was examining.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 10:58 am
Good to hear your friend's ok, Gautam, though I am sure he is affected by it happening...
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 11:00 am
The "joint venture" hypothesis is the most frightening.

ETA has been consistently losing popular ground, and it's possible that fewer isolated terrorists can turn more evil and deranged.

Batasuna (the political wing of ETA) has never ever condemned a terrorist action by ETA. Now it "rejects the massacre", and -in the voice of Otegi-says the authors, from the "Arab resistance", "wanted to cause the biggest number of victims among workers..." (which is true).

Either ETA has changed its tactic -and decided to publicly "reject" one of their actions-, or they didn't do it, or -this is a true possibility- the terrorist attack was done by, or with the complicity of, a radicalized fraction of ETA, with little or no contact with Batasuna.
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 11:05 am
A couple of addenda about "who done it?".

In Spain the blaming tendency is exactly the opposite of the US.

The Spanish government can only point to ETA. Any Al-Qaeda implications hurt them on sunday. "We were bombed because the government went to a war the Spanish people fervently opposed".

All the left wing extremists say it's the Arabs.
A pro-ETA newspaper's headline today: "Everything Points to Al-Qaeda".
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 11:13 am
It would not surprise me if Al Qaeda was linking up with other groups. Bin Ladins goal seems to be to become sort of central clearing house for terrorists providing expertise, limited logistic support and a communications network. But let the locals carry out the dirty work. while Al Qeada takes the credit. This is very much a multinational corporation approach.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 11:37 am
Qui bono?

If ETA, how does that further their political goals? I can't really see the Spanish government looking more kindly on Basque independence.

If AQ, they will have succeeded in bringing Allah's revenge on an ally of the Great Satan.

If it was a joint excercise, it would make it easier to execute, and both parties would have a plausible deniable excuse should they wish to use it.

Clearly the Spanish government has an interest in blaming ETA rather than AQ.


I suspect it was a joint operation. Either way they are all bastards.

ETA denies involvment just heard on radio
Also they found an unexploded bomb which will yield clues.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 11:44 am
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Qui bono?

If ETA, how does that further their political goals? I can't really see the Spanish government looking more kindly on Basque independence.


Well, they never seemed to look for popularity before (neither did IRA).
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 11:55 am
True, but this was an attack against "soft" targets. There was no element of striking against the Spanish government. They didn't target govt buildings or police or guarda civil or anything that could be deemed part of the State. When ETA have attacked "soft" targets in the past, e.g. tourist beaches for economic reasons, they have given warnings, I understand.

I'm not saying ETA were not involved. But if they were it was a radical change of tactic, no?
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 11:59 am
The theory behind it is the Prolongued Popular War. In the long run, the Basque people will be fed up with Spanish repression and the hipocrisy of the moderate capitalist Basque nationalists. The final objective is to create the Socialist Republic of Euzkadi.

ETA was not that unpopular during the Franco regime.
In fact, they were even popular when they exploded the car of Carrero Blanco, killing the right wing heir to Franco (big blast, most the remains of the car fell on the roof top of a nearby building). Some democratic learning had to happen for many people to understand that this attack had not helped the transition to democracy, and very well could have been an obstacle to it.

In the Basque country, the voting percentage of the now outlawed pro-ETA party (first called Harri Batasuna, then Euskal Herritarrok), was never over 20%. But it was seldom below 10%. Most of this vote was in the rural zones, and much of it among the unemployed youth of a rich region (a perfect breeding ground for terrorists).
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 12:02 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
But if they were it was a radical change of tactic, no?


The planned bombing at christmas seems to point into that direction.

And they killed quite a number of politicans, policemen and military personal before!
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Thok
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 12:39 pm
Eta denies responsibility for the Madrid bomb attacks, media reports say.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 12:46 pm
Thok wrote:
Eta denies responsibility for the Madrid bomb attacks, media reports say.
"An ETA message has arrived saying that it bore no responsibility for the attack," a presenter for ETB Basque public television said.

The Basque newspaper Gara also said on its Web site that it had received a phone call from a person claiming to represent ETA saying it "had no responsibility" for the attacks
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Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 02:47 pm
I think this is the work of Al Qaida, and not of ETA. The goal of ETA is to form a separate Bask state. Previous bomb attacks had the goal to pressure the Spanish government and not primarily to kill as many people as possible. These bombattacks seem to have as purpose to kill as many people as possible. Further more, like already mentioned here: the ETA always worns before a bombing; the time is just horrible - three days before elections, that would only mean more anger, meaning that people will vote for the ones who shout hardest that they will eliminate ETA; ETA uses to attack politicians, policemen, buildings of the government - what is the use of four commutertrains? It are just some remarks, and it could well be ETA, of course, but personally I would go for at least another terrorist group.
Further more: should we be scared now, als Dutchmen? If this IS Al Qaida, and these bombs are meant to hurt the Iraq coalition - which the Netherlands, as well as many other countries, is part of -, could there be the possibility we're next? Only the thought...brrrr
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 02:56 pm
Rick d'Israeli wrote:
ETA uses to attack politicians, policemen, buildings of the government - what is the use of four commutertrains?


Perhaps you are too young to remember the bombing of Hipercor, a supermarket in Barcelona, on 1987.
21 dead, 45 wounded.
Not a single politician.
Not a single policeman.
Not a government building.
ETA acknowledged the authorship.

Rick d'Israeli wrote:
Further more: should we be scared now, als Dutchmen? If this IS Al Qaida, and these bombs are meant to hurt the Iraq coalition - which the Netherlands, as well as many other countries, is part of -, could there be the possibility we're next? Only the thought...brrrr


Well, if it is, then the most threatened nation is the United Kingdom.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Mar, 2004 02:59 pm
Thanks fbaezer

dont tell bin laden theres a good chap
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