8
   

believe in god!

 
 
roammer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 04:28 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

First, Allah is the name Muslims give to god, not Jews. YHWH is a rough transliteration into Roman letters for the name Jews give to god, and it is sometimes pronounced Yahweh. But many Jews will not say god's name--Orthodox Jews and most conservative Jews will not say god's name.

That being dealt with--you still have not give a definition for god.


Allah and Jew's god is same, Ebrahim's god is just one, and yes,i did it, I gave u a definition for god.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Nov, 2012 04:43 am
@roammer,
The only thing resembling a definition of god that you provided was "exist," which one could reasonably assume to mean existence, which is no definition at all. Unless, of course, you mean that everything which exists is god, which is also no definition at all.

Jews do not call their god Allah--get over it.
roammer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2012 11:46 am
@Setanta,
First of all, i wanna tell you something about Ibraham's god (or god of ibrahim that he made ), Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i Faith are sometimes called "Abrahamic religions", because they all accept the tradition that God (Hebrew: יהוה Yahweh or YHWH (see Tetragrammaton), often rendered as Jehovah (יְהֹוָה) in English; Arabic: الله Allah; Aramaic: Elah or Alaha) revealed himself to the patriarch Abraham. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Abrahamic_religions) , but at the during of the time it change's to allah for example The numerous names for god have been a source of debate among biblical scholars. Elohim (god, or authority, plural form), El (mighty one), El Shaddai (almighty), Adonai (master), Elyon (highest), Avinu (our father), are regarded by many religious Jews not as names, but as titles highlighting different aspects of YHWH and the various 'roles' of God, and as you know alla (الی له) sound's just like allah or allakh(ال اه), but anyway you know it, mohammad and Moses are from Abrahim's family!
And about the exist and my definition for god! I should say, first i said i have no strictly idea and i'm here for understand new idea for myself, Also i said god(on my believe) is allah because i think it is perfect and complete, as for a good definition for god or allah i can say , the god is reality of exist not self-exist as i know, and this reality of exist will require the quality and adjectives of god( the long list!!!!), and it is marvelous truth about the god is that the nature is manifestation of God.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2012 12:11 pm
@roammer,
The association between the "God" of ancient Jews and that of Muslims is variously supported and disputed by academics. In any case, post modernist philosophers would argue that the meaning of "God/Allah" is context dependent and fluctuates from moment to moment, according to the social dynamics of the interlocutors. Indeed, it is that fluctuation which religionists attempt to counter by claiming that "God" is an eternal unchanging entity. But this leads to a problematic paradox even for pantheism (God is everything) since permanence implies that "change" is an illusion, and therefore "creation" is also an illusion !

Have fun with your "beliefs", but bear in mind that they are a result of social conditioning.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2012 12:18 pm
@roammer,
You can dance and sing to your heart's content. Jews don't call their god Allah. That list you posted is a stark example of Muslim panegyrics to Allah. Fresco has, i think, correctly identified your notion of god as pantheism. I see nothing about your posting here which suggests that you are open to new ideas. Abraham is, for all that any reliable record can show, a mythic individual. To say that Moses and Mohammed were both descended from Abraham is laughable.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2012 12:42 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
You can dance and sing to your heart's content. Jews don't call their god Allah.

Oh yes they do, if Arabian is their native language. Same with Arabian Christians. "Allah" is simply Arabian for "God". It's strictly a language thing, and has nothing to do with the substance of the respective theologies --- if any.
roammer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2012 01:28 pm
@Setanta,
I don't like to say this, but I'm so sorry, i tell u people that i'm not Muslim!(actually i hate it, and you-both- labeled me) and i think both of u can't understand this reality, and because of that,I must say something:
Quote:
The association between the "God" of ancient Jews and that of Muslims is variously supported and disputed by academics

It's not my problem, and u can say these gossips to anybody just like yourself, not me.
Quote:
In any case, post modernist philosophers would argue that the meaning of "God/Allah" is context dependent and fluctuates from moment to moment, according to the social dynamics of the interlocutors.

If modernist philosophers are like u, i have nothing to say to you as a dogma man, this is "Argumentum ad verecundiam" that u think modernist philosophers are perfect. (can u read Heidegger? sure not... Very Happy )
Quote:
Indeed, it is that fluctuation which religionists attempt to counter by claiming that "God" is an eternal unchanging entity. But this leads to a problematic paradox even for pantheism (God is everything) since permanence implies that "change" is an illusion, and therefore "creation" is also an illusion !


Illiterate !
pantheism is not means "god is everything", if you don't know something you can just say and ask me and ... i can tell you(if i want...of course ), u have no education about philosophy. shame on you!


Setanta wrote:

You can dance and sing to your heart's content. Jews don't call their god Allah(i told you about this ... stupid boy!). That list you posted is a stark example of Muslim panegyrics to Allah. Fresco has, i think, correctly identified your notion of god as pantheism. I see nothing about your posting here which suggests that you are open to new ideas. Abraham is, for all that any reliable record can show, a mythic individual. To say that Moses and Mohammed were both descended from Abraham is laughable.


yes you right honey! Laughing
By this imitation, you improve Darwin's philosophy. and one more thing that i must tell u is, if i don't know eng language as a bad option, both of u didn't know anything about your idea and your thinking and it's really deeply dishonor that you think know anything!
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2012 01:42 pm
@roammer,
Quote:
Illiterate !
pantheism is not means "god is everything", if you don't know something you can just say and ask me and ... i can tell you(if i want...of course ), u have no education about philosophy. shame on you!


My apologies ! Up until now I did not realize I was dealing with a fool.
roammer
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Nov, 2012 02:03 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Quote:
Illiterate !
pantheism is not means "god is everything", if you don't know something you can just say and ask me and ... i can tell you(if i want...of course ), u have no education about philosophy. shame on you!


My apologies ! Up until now I did not realize I was dealing with a fool.


It's mine ... : read this again ....
Quote:
The definition for "Pantheism" given in the Dictionary of Cultural Literacy is: "The belief that God, or a group of gods, is identical with the whole natural world; pantheism comes from Greek roots meaning "belief that everything is a god."

By contrast, "panentheism" is the doctrine that God includes the world as a part, though not the whole, of "his" being.

An example of "Panentheism" is given by Fr. Charles Cummings, a Trappist-Cistercian monk, author of Eco-Spirituality: toward a reverent life. In Cummings approach, "Pantheism exaggerates divine immanence to the point of identifying God and the universe. The Judeo-Christian tradition maintains both that God is immanently in all things (or all things are in God) and the God is transcendentally beyond all things. "

For Fr. Cummings, "Reverence for nature is not irreverence for God; reverence for nature does not diminish our reverence toward God. God need not compete with nature for our reverence. Rather, we can reverence God by reverencing nature, because all creation is permeated with God's presence."

Similarly, Michael Fox has found value in a panentheistic approach. He writes: "The pantheism that regards the totality of Nature as being God (i.e.., that God is swallowed up in the unity of all) rather than an aspect of divinity is quite distinct from monotheistic pantheism. This monotheistic pantheism conceptualizes God as the all-inclusive essence or substance, the first cause of the universe, with many attributes, including intelligence, which we can perceive in Nature's lawful harmony. This form of pantheism would be better termed panentheism."

In short, the philosophy of "panentheism", as distinct from strict "Pantheism", believes in the immanence of God(-----!!!!), but also in its Transcendence. By contrast, for strict Pantheists, like Ernst Haeckel, John Burroughs, and Joseph Wood Krutch, God and the Universe are one and the same, and the concept of a transcendent deity is abandoned. More at this link


Quote:
In eastern mysticism and especially islamic mysticism created two progress,
"unification of exist"(panentheism) and "unification of intuition"


It implies that u can just remember the meaning of the word as a dictionary!!!! stupid little boy Laughing
And as I said the pantheism is not just means that "god is everything" . get it? Illiterate !
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 04:02 am
@roammer,
It's good to see that you came because you are open to new ideas.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 04:11 am
@Thomas,
No, buddy, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Before Islam, there were a great many confessional Jews in Arabia. They didn't call their god "Allah," and in fact, would not name god at all. Yahweh is a very bad approximation of the name of god in Judaism, but the point, which i've already made in this thread, is that Jews don't speak the name of god. They certainly don't use the name Allah.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 07:16 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
No, buddy, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Then my brother in law from Tunis, Tunisia must not be knowing what he's talking about either. He told me:
  • that his city is bilingual (Arabic and French). The majority population is Muslim, but it also has minority populations of Jews and Christians.
  • that everyone in Tunisia, no matter what their religion, says "Dieu" when they speak French and "Allah" when they speak Arabic, and
  • that the same is true for the Jews and Christians of other countries in the general neighborhood, such as Algeria and Morocco.
So if you get around to visiting Tunis or Algier or Casablanca, and if you meet any of the resident Jews there, please be sure to tell them that they're doing it wrong. I'm sure they'll be eager to correct their mistake for you.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 08:43 am
@Setanta,
They are all talking about the same guy. He created the world, spoke to Abram, talked out of a burning bush and flooded the world. One of the characteristics of a "one true God" is that there is only one.

I think it is a bad thing that we use different words for the same deity.
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 08:46 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I think it is a bad thing that we use different words for the same deity.

I personally think it's a bad thing to blindly worship a cartoon character but that's me.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 08:49 am
@tsarstepan,
That's a different issue. But, for the record, people were worshiping gods (including the one in question here) long before cartoons were invented.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 11:10 am
@maxdancona,
Apparently, you don't get the distinction here. This member used a laundry list of panegyrics for Allah, such as the Muslims are fond of using. When i told her that was why i assumed she was Muslim, she said that the list was names Jews used for god. That's just plain bullshit, and it ignores the very important point that Orthodox Jews and most Conservative Jews will not not speak the name of god. Reformed Jews may be a different kettle of fish, but they are a relatively recent development.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 05:16 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
This member used a laundry list of panegyrics for Allah, such as the Muslims are fond of using. When i told her that was why i assumed she was Muslim, she said that the list was names Jews used for god. That's just plain bullshit

True.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Nov, 2012 05:54 pm
@Thomas,
I suspect that Setanta is less of an expert in Jewish theology through history than he is pretending to be.

http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/11305-names-of-god

Of course, I am no expert in Jewish theology either, so I will say no more other than saying that I think that Setanta is full of crap on this topic.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 04:38 am
@maxdancona,
If anyone around here is consistently full of crap, it's you Max, and you seem to compulsively demonstrate it. I didn't say that the Jews don't have names for god, i said that orthodox Jews and most Conservative Jews won't speak the name of god. Now, take your encyclopedia article and compare it to the list which the author of this thread provided--not even close to a match.

I have not pretended to be an expert in Jewish theology--but then, it it weren't for things like straw men, you'd never have a rhetorical leg to stand on.
0 Replies
 
roammer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 Nov, 2012 04:56 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Apparently, you don't get the distinction here. This member used a laundry list of panegyrics for Allah, such as the Muslims are fond of using. When i told her that was why i assumed she was Muslim, she said that the list was names Jews used for god. That's just plain bullshit, and it ignores the very important point that Orthodox Jews and most Conservative Jews will not not speak the name of god. Reformed Jews may be a different kettle of fish, but they are a relatively recent development.

just for clear talking i'll tell you this; although i don't know why i'm trying for this...!

I didn't say the muslim's god! and "god of jews" are exaclty the same (espesially as for as definition ).
I said:
Quote:
Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i Faith are sometimes called "Abrahamic religions", because they all accept the tradition that God (Hebrew: יהוה Yahweh or YHWH (see Tetragrammaton), often rendered as Jehovah (יְהֹוָה) in English; Arabic: الله Allah; Aramaic: Elah or Alaha) revealed himself to the patriarch Abraham.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Abrahamic_religions

You asked me, what is your god and what's the definition god you have?, and i showed you my list!!!!!!!!!!(although i didn't), you told what u told, and i told you back it's not important to me that this (the list!!!) is a definition of Allah(Muslim's god!! ). I believe this definition, because it's perfect, and actually if you can understand i'm going to tell you... .... that...... i... believe god but.... i.... don"t... accept.... prophecy, ok?
And the point it is my list was not definition, the list was attributes of God, the definition of god was: "reality of the thing" if you can realize this!!--do you know reality? do you know what truth it is? did you read about exist?--
but ... maybe another time you can!!!
 

Related Topics

Another day when there is no God - Discussion by edgarblythe
Is "God" just our conscience? - Question by Groomers123
The existence of God - Question by jwagner
Are Gods Judgments righteous? - Discussion by Smileyrius
What did God do on Day 8? - Question by HesDeltanCaptain
What do you think about world? - Question by Joona
 
  1. Forums
  2. » believe in god!
  3. » Page 4
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 04/14/2021 at 11:24:49