Bad Boss

Never badmouth your old boss. Even if you are entirely justified. You will be speaking to your possible future boss, and the possible future boss will read all kinds of bad things into it.

Just say things like, "opportunities for advancement", "new challenges", "closer to my home", whatever. But don't go into the boss thing, at all.

Actually, I have found that uncompromising honesty is often something that will help you in an interview. Of course, don't take it to an extreme and definitely don't bad mouth the former boss, and don't bring it up unless it is asked. If you are leaving because of your boss, tell the interviewer why. I was fired from a Dispatch job and I was reluctant to use the job history in my interviews, but I went ahead with it. Told them the reason why I was fired and it wasn't held against me at all. I actually landed a pretty good job afterwords.

Interesting thought there, roverroad. It would probably work if I were talking to someone who knew the guy.

Thanks, sozobe. It's the "whatever" that I'm fishing for. Actually, I'm about at the top salary for the bookkeeping field in the area, so opportunity for advancement doesn't sound quite plausible. Maybe I can put some spirit into the new challenges.

I'm such a lousy liar, maybe I should just go with roverroad's honesty. Still thinkin'. . . .

Just remember not to make it sound like it was all your boss's fault. I don't know the situation but they like it if you take a little personal responsibility. Call it a learning experience. They love that stuff.

Of course, this is only if it's brought up. They may not even ask. If you haven't given notice yet to your current job your interviewer is going to want to know why they can't call your boss and why you don't have a letter of recommendation.

So it may be good to give proper notice and ask for a letter of recommendation. Also, look at things like the unemployment rate where you live? Will it be hard to land a job if 300 other people are applying for the same position.

Also, if you quit will the situation allow you to qualify for unemployment compensation? Sometimes it's better to be fired than to quit when it comes to Unemployment benefits. Just depends on the situation.

I'm getting off subject here. I've just had a little experience in this department recently. I feel like I've become a professional interviewee:)

I just wouldn't use cookie cutter comments, things they would expect you to say are a dime a dozen. Sound professional but stand out in a crowd. Make them remember you.

Have you quit already? I ask because applicants (who we all are, at some point and yet again) still attached might not send a flag.

But, so what. I have always gotten jobs by just talking with the main person, and I know you can too, Roger. You don't have to dump on mr. problem boss, but present a discreet silence, without smirks. An alternate reference will probably fill the potential boss in.

My larger question is age... I know we are of similar (or give or take 15 years...) age, which brings up age bias in one direction or the other.

Me, I'd value your experience. Young companies might, older companies might, and younger companies not... or just the opposite may happen. Some young companies may seek experience first.

I'll be very interested in how you fare, for you. And then interested as a general issue.

Roger don't even mention the boss. Just concentrate your efforts on the positives of the new job in the interview. I do hope you get the job - GOOD LUCK! And I hope you never have to see your old boss ever again!

It does sound like you've been there, roverroad. Still employed, and have been for over 5 1/2 years. Well, if you quit, there's no compensation, but the plain fact is, I do not want to get fired. Also, that would be just one more interview problem to deal with. Feel free to share any further thoughts you might have.

Age. Yes, Osso, I'm 59. That one can go either way, but is probably a negative, on balance.

Well, I prefer not to mention the boss, but that does still leave me with the unanswered question of why I'm looking around.

Thanks for the best wishes, msolga. I share your hopes.

Roger

How long have you been at your current job? Just curious, but if it's been for a while then there's nothing at all strange about applying for a new position. This happems all the time. If it's only been for a short time, then you might have to tell the odd white lie (if they ask why you want to shift), but hey, this is OK! All you want is some peace & sanity in the workplace! And let's face it: Employers have things pretty much their own way these days. Their major concerns are profit margins, productivity, outcomes, etc, etc, etc .... So just tell them what they want to hear. Or whatever puts you in the best light. You'll do a good job anyway .... You know that.

{{{{{{{{{{Roger}}}}}}}}}}

Of course, I'm so biased in your favor that all I can offer is to come out there and wring your old boss's neck!!

Doesn't everyone want a change of scenery? A fresh challenge? To me, that would be a plus if you have the references to back up your desirability--do you think the old boss will come through with a good reference, or do you have others who could provide you with letters of reference?

However it works out, you are the best and I wish you the best of luck.
D

What Diane said, too!

Good luck, Roger!

Roger
I wouldn't mention the boss either and would go with the new challenge thing.

The very best of luck to you in finding a great new job.

(((Hug)))

One thing I wouldn't do is leave a job and then look. I've learned that one from personal experience. As backwards as it sounds, an employee is more attractive as someone currently employed, than unemployed. I think it's likely because once you leave, the interviewer has all these questions about why you left. Did you get fired, were there personality conflicts, etc. etc.

When I go through examples of interview questions I find online, I first answer it honestly, then try to see a way I can put a positive spin on it. So maybe instead of saying you have a boss you just can't work with anymore, perhaps you could say something along the lines that you and your boss have different working styles and you feel this difference could hamper your productivity as an employee. Then go on to say that you take pride in the work you do and you want to be able to provide your best abilities to your employer. But given the current situation, you feel it best to seek employment where you can make both your employer and yourself happy with the work you do.

Something along those lines...does that seem better? It's not an outright lie (and I know how you feel about being a lousy liar) but it focuses the attention more so on the positive aspects.

Hey Roger, this sucks...no possibility of a transfer eh?
peptalk.......
I'd go with seeking new challenges angle and the partial truth about the boss, only if asked. Life throws us curve balls sometimes but if you go with it, who knows, it could be a great ride. Look at this as an oppourtunity, have you thought of a career change, teaching maybe? If you're at the top of your game, you're a valuable commodity. With your expierence there must be a lot of areas of intrest. Talk to a headhunter or do local research, you may be surprised at what is out there.
Good Luck, I hope you find a place that will make you happy.
Ceili

I bad mouth my old boss to my new boss all the time. Of course, he knows that I like him better than the old one, and think he's a better manager. And doubly of course, I didn't start doing this until working at the new job for a few months.

I would shy away from 'bad boss' stories in the interview. Stick to the 'opportunities for advancement' and what not. You're not lying, you're just not telling the whole truth.

Of course, after you leave this job, get another one, get bored with the new one, you can then put down 'poor management' as an excuse for leaving. But this should be the third or fourth job back, at least. And when questioned by it, tell them the truth (always better not to lie) but also let them know that you think their management would be much better than the job that had the poor management.

Rog- I agree with the people who said that you should not quit your old job. An employed worker is much more marketable than an unemployed one.

Since you are at the top of your field, and advancement isn't a contingency, talk about new challenges. If you work for a small company and you go on an interview with a large company, discuss the positives of working for a large company. And vice versa.

Under no circumstances, should you badmouth your present boss. It may turn a potential employer off, and an adverse remark may jump up and bite you in the butt. Besides, no boss wants someone who talks badly about a former employer.

If, for some reason you are pressed and can't get out of it, you can talk about differences in approaches that you find untenable. Try to turn every negative into a positive.

Found this list of interview question. It might be a good idea to take a look at them, so that you are not thrown a curve at an interview.

http://www.indiana.edu/~libpers/interview.html

Good luck!

Hey, what great answers to wake up to! And the boss is out today to attend a yawn (no typo) concert.

Diane, you'd do that? Swell!

Interesting thoughts, Turner. I really will contemplate your last paragraph at a later time.

Good idea, Phoenix. We really do have differences in approaches to the job, and this may be just what I need to avoid a direct lie without volunteering the exact truth.

Diane - why don't you do just that - they wouldn't expect it of a nun, even one who looks as dodg.................

Roger-
Firstly--since we've had these discussions on the bosses and our roles previously--thank goodness you're considering getting out of there!! Good for you! Its a bold step and a first step towards finding something to make YOU happy--and thats a good thing!
I wish you the best of luck in your search and hope we can all come together and give you some fine assistance. Looks like a great deal of wonderful information has been passed along already-fabulous!
I would definately practice interview questions if its been a while since youve done this sort of thing and go over all the positions on your resume and find a honest yet not revealing way of a positive spin on those, its hard but it helps.
If you get to an interview and give these answers and someone wants more and more information in that avenue you can always do your best to sway the conversation with positives. Ive had some interviewers however that were crazy people and gave them as little information as possible--thats something you get a feel for. Maybe you can have someone help you practice?
Being in a position for over 5 years shows loyalty already, dont worry about that one. I like the examples Phoenix gave on large vs small companies.
You can also go with company environments-well groomed professional sales vs casual manufacuring for example. You're lucky enough to have one of those positions where that works in your favor wherever you go
Dont forget to use companies nearer and dearer to your home location as a plus as well.
If you go into an interview prepared you can nail a great many things and take any twist around. Its funny really.
Look at the job description very closely. If they are looking for an independant, reliable applicant well then--your current employer could be a micro manager even after a long relationship (if you've gotten that person thats delving deep into it that is). In that way while you put a negative sway to the current boss its not looked at from an HR point as negative in the situation, they are looking for your positives-and this is one of them.
Really cant stress enough though that ANY time you have something in at all negative to say you spin positive back over it to end your statement with. Practice Practice Practice.

Yep!

If you can avoid saying ANYTHING bad, that's always best, though. Even the micromanaging thing is dangerous; "Oh, he wants to just be off doing his own thing, eh, doesn't take direction well..." Etc.

This is a big part of what I used to do -- interview training -- and Never Ever Say Anything Bad About Your Former Boss was a cardinal rule. Even if you're totally justified.

If you HAVE the job, that's different. But in an interview, you can choose your words carefully, don't lie, but don't say anything bad. And don't volunteer.

As others have said, I don't think you need to worry too much about the why you are looking for another job part. People just do that. But your best bet is to make it about the job you want, rather than the job you left. "My friend ____ works here, and has said wonderful things...", "I saw your ad and thought this would be a really interesting direction for me to go, professionally, and my research has indicated that you are a stellar organization..." Etc. (Sorry about the whatevers and etc.'s, I can keep doing this upon request.)

edit: said the same thing twice