5
   

Does "that" refer to "scientific merit"?

 
 
Reply Tue 25 Sep, 2012 10:28 pm



Context:

The speed and range of the defensive reactions in this case was not sufficient to deflect all concerns. The debate is still unfolding, and unsurprisingly, further accusations are emerging from industry-hostile organizations of a biased attempt to cover up uncomfortable findings. But for anyone with a professional interest in defending their industry’s record, the European biotech industry’s handling of this challenge offers an interesting example of how rapid intervention can at least mitigate negative impacts. And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, that can only be considered good science — and common sense.
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Type: Question • Score: 5 • Views: 1,112 • Replies: 12
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 12:58 am
@oristarA,
I think "that" here should refers to "where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit."

That is: "that" here serves as the equivalent of "which."

Am I on the right track?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 03:46 am
Have you guys been all out for holiday?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 05:33 am
@oristarA,
Well, it seems that the "that" refers to "the European biotech industry’s handling."

But what is the grammatical role of the clause "where"?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 06:18 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
Quote:
And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, that can only be considered good science — and common sense.


I think "that" here should refers to "where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit."


I agree.



oristarA wrote:
That is: "that" here serves as the equivalent of "which."


It doesn't sound right:

"And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, which can only be considered good science — and common sense."


However, if you swap "it" for "that", the sentence will still make sense.

"And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, it can only be considered good science — and common sense."



Using "that" as a substitute for "which" would be "definition 4" in the pronoun section here:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/that

Quote:
4 (plural that) [relative pronoun] used to introduce a defining or restrictive clause, especially one essential to identification.

instead of “which,” “who,” or “whom”:
the book that I’ve just written

instead of “when” after an expression of time:
the year that Anna was born



However, I think they are using "definition 2" in the pronoun section.

Quote:
2 referring to a specific thing previously mentioned, known, or understood:

that’s a good idea

what are we going to do about that?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 06:21 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
Well, it seems that the "that" refers to "the European biotech industry’s handling."


I think your earlier idea was the correct one.

They were saying "where bad science is criticized, that results in good science".
0 Replies
 
JTT
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 06:32 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, that can only be considered good science — and common sense.


And when these negative impacts are actually criticisms of questionable scientific merit, then they can and should be seen not as negatives but as those very things that make for good science; this is only common sense.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 06:36 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

oristarA wrote:
Quote:
And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, that can only be considered good science — and common sense.


I think "that" here should refers to "where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit."


I agree.



oristarA wrote:
That is: "that" here serves as the equivalent of "which."


It doesn't sound right:

"And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, which can only be considered good science — and common sense."


However, if you swap "it" for "that", the sentence will still make sense.

"And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, it can only be considered good science — and common sense."



Using "that" as a substitute for "which" would be "definition 4" in the pronoun section here:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/that

Quote:
4 (plural that) [relative pronoun] used to introduce a defining or restrictive clause, especially one essential to identification.

instead of “which,” “who,” or “whom”:
the book that I’ve just written

instead of “when” after an expression of time:
the year that Anna was born



However, I think they are using "definition 2" in the pronoun section.

Quote:
2 referring to a specific thing previously mentioned, known, or understood:

that’s a good idea

what are we going to do about that?



Thank you.

But I've changed the idea:

oristarA wrote:

Well, it seems that the "that" refers to "the European biotech industry’s handling."

But what is the grammatical role of the clause "where"?




Is English your native language, Oralloy?
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 06:42 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Have you guys been all out for holiday?

In the western hemisphere, we were likely sleeping.
Quote:
And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, that can only be considered good science — and common sense.

I think this is a very confusing sentence. My first response was to link "of questionable scientific merit" to "criticisms" so I was wondering if the criticism was so questionable why is the negative impact considered good? From context, it seems the author is saying "criticism of bad science is a normal part of the process." That makes more sense.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 06:54 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
But I've changed the idea:

oristarA wrote:

Well, it seems that the "that" refers to "the European biotech industry’s handling."


I can see how that construction can work logically. But my instincts say the first version is the way it is intended.

If they used "that" to refer to something in a previous sentence, when there is also something in the current sentence it could be referring to, their writing would be confusing and likely to be misunderstood, as most people would take it to refer to what was in the current sentence.



oristarA wrote:
Is English your native language, Oralloy?


Yes, but I do not have any special expertise, like a college degree in English. I'm not a qualified English teacher or anything like that.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 07:51 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, that can only be considered good science — and common sense.


And when these negative impacts are actually criticisms of questionable scientific merit, then they can and should be seen not as negatives but as those very things that make for good science; this is only common sense.


Ah... Very cool. I didn't see your reply when I replied, JTT (I believe it is because you posted when I was writing my reply).

The full context is here:

http://blog.pharmexec.com/2012/09/25/monsantos-rat-tumor-scare-a-wake-up-call-for-the-pharma-industry/
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 07:54 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

oristarA wrote:

Have you guys been all out for holiday?

In the western hemisphere, we were likely sleeping.
Quote:
And where the negative impact derives from criticisms of questionable scientific merit, that can only be considered good science — and common sense.

I think this is a very confusing sentence. My first response was to link "of questionable scientific merit" to "criticisms" so I was wondering if the criticism was so questionable why is the negative impact considered good? From context, it seems the author is saying "criticism of bad science is a normal part of the process." That makes more sense.


Thank you Engineer.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Sep, 2012 07:56 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

oristarA wrote:
But I've changed the idea:

oristarA wrote:

Well, it seems that the "that" refers to "the European biotech industry’s handling."


I can see how that construction can work logically. But my instincts say the first version is the way it is intended.

If they used "that" to refer to something in a previous sentence, when there is also something in the current sentence it could be referring to, their writing would be confusing and likely to be misunderstood, as most people would take it to refer to what was in the current sentence.



oristarA wrote:
Is English your native language, Oralloy?


Yes, but I do not have any special expertise, like a college degree in English. I'm not a qualified English teacher or anything like that.



Your analysis helped.

Thank you.
0 Replies
 
 

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