Caitlin Flanagan on the "nanny wars" (The Atlantic, March)

The figures don't bear out an awful lot of help happening - the very language of "help" implies it is still our work - and so it remains, in general.

The last lot of research I looked at - at least from Oz - has women working two full days - one for pay, one not. The amount of housework men do in two full-time worker homes has gone up, but nothing like half - not sure it even hit a quarter. Mind you, I am not sure if this is so for the US - I get a feel that our gender stuff is much meaner than yours.

As a veteran of the housework wars, I never found a way to achieve any kind of even remotely equal responsibility for chores with men, unless they were just naturally inclined to do them - as with the last fella I lived with - and I have lived with lots of men (mainly just householders, I hasten to add!)

Several times the fellas involved were not working, and spent way more time at home than I did, too - I was either working every night and doing full-time study, or in full-time work - AND they believed in equal responsibility. They just never did stuff.

Wowsa, go Sozobe! Lots to read through.....

I see at least three valid fronts for feminism to work on in this debate:

1.) Get men more involved in household tasks, from cleaning to childcare. I see a lot more of this in my generation, men raised by feminists. Have talked about my friend the stay-at-home dad, very cool guy. I've never been in a relationship that was not fairly equitable.

2.) Amend workplace conditions. There has already been progress on this, with laws like the Family and Medical Leave Act. But more, like that article I posted forever ago and never followed up with properly (was that Crittenden?), about allowing people back in to the workplace if they are out for a while to raise a child, allowing more flexibility, etc.

3.) Help better the lot of nannies and other childcare workers. This is closely allied to #2, just more specific. Make sure immigrants are aware of their rights, make sure that childcare workers in general are paid adequately, in tandem with regulations that reward those who are most qualified, etc.

Sorry littlek... :-) (Sheepish grin.)

Interesting topic, to be sure, thanks for starting it.

Don't be sorry!

One family wanted to have me as a contractor, their CPA told them to do it that way. I would have had to pay close to $3,000 to right my taxes. The funny thing is that as I was trying to figure it out, I read in the IRS booklet that household help (specifically mentioned nannies) must be treated as employees and taxes must be withheld by the employer. We never went with the tax thing.

I do think that the author made a good point about mother-nanny relationships. She said that mothers tend to see the new nanny as a friend, part of the family, a nice auntie to hang out with her kids. They do not want to think of the nanny as an employee. At least, that is what happened with the one family I worked for (the other family is actually family). I makes for a very odd inter-personal dynamic. I know more about this couple than most of their friends do.

The dynamic has got to be way freaky. I can't imagine having a nanny, myself. Part of why I was so annoyed at her article -- she seemed to be extrapolating hugely from a very small sample consisting of herself and some friends.

I once went on a weeklong retreat/ vacation thing with several families, one brought their nanny -- she had the same name as the mom, and looked like a younger version of the mom, and the whole thing just made me incredibly uncomfortable. I was getting baaaad vibes. Sure enough, the dad ran off with her about 3 months later.

At any rate, I took all of those points well, about how fraught that must be, on many levels.

I should reread the other points she made about the mother-nanny thing. I don't know if I believe that the child-nanny bond is so strong. I know the kids love me, but they would much rather have their parents with them instead of me.

"I do think that the author made a good point about mother-nanny relationships. She said that mothers tend to see the new nanny as a friend, part of the family, a nice auntie to hang out with her kids. They do not want to think of the nanny as an employee. "

That is interesting - it is a good example of the "boundary breach" stuff that I am always on about re sexual abuse - or in therapy - the employer/employee relationship needs to be really clear first, I would have thought, on the financial and emotional side, before the friendship stuff can happen, if it does.

To mess up your thinking about your nanny as friend or family, rather than employee, to whom you owe decent working conditions, must make abuses on either side more possible.

Thing is, performing such an intimate function, lots of projections and such are liable to happen....just thinking..

I met family #2 through my sister. She was already friends with the parents. I got into it without making a contract or even really discussing the terms. In the winter after some stuff happened, I wrote out a contract the way I'd have had it. They took offense, got defensive and bitchy.

I read about 2/3 of it, in the doctor's waiting room.. and stole the magazine (told them so, too). Haven't read all of this thread yet. Did quibble as I read along, but have found it interesting, if way out of my personal world. I was going to start a topic on it, glad littleK did.

NPR continuously is touting this article for the atlantic (underwriter, I guess)

Looking forward to your take on it, Osso...