be of a reader. How can this sentence be right?

@Setanta,

Quote:

McTag: Yes, it's idiom, and its ungrammatical idiom too.

I'm not much of a reader.- okay
I'm not so great a reader.- okay
I'm not so great of a reader.- ungrammatical, idiom.

Quote:

Setanta: Oh? What grammatical rule does it violate, McT?

That should be obvious to a student of language like yourself, Set.

There is no one unalterable set of grammatical rules that apply to all languages or even to all the dialects of one language. It's hardly surprising that one can find structures grammatical for one dialect that are not grammatical for another.

You just had a tiff with Izzy about this very thing in another thread. What might it be that prevents you from making these simple connections?

Now assuming that McTag is correct that this is not a collocation that is of BrE, then that tells you that it is ungrammatical for BrE. I'll let McTag speak for himself as to how wide a grammatical net he was casting.

Contrex seems to believe that it is not of BrE, Spendi has gone to some lengths to suggest it is.

A Google exact phrase search limited to the UK region gives,

About 57,600 results for "so great of a"

The same, limited to the US region, gives,

About 4,320,000 results for "so great of a".

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@JTT,

Quote:

So, what is your confusion, Spendi, in your remark above?

I'm not confused. It's merely a solipsistic affectation of yours to suggest I am. You fondly imagine, no doubt from practice on English Majors, that asserting that I am awards you the upper hand.

And leave ol' Henry out of it eh? I might have to talk dirty if he is the subject. Real dirty.

I explained the problem in the starter post and you have not raised any objection to that.

In the greasy log pillow fight missing with a swipe dunks you because slippery thighs have very little grip.

You couldn't write your way out of a envelope of light mist.

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@JTT,

Quote:

A Google exact phrase search limited to the UK region gives,

About 57,600 results for "so great of a"

The same, limited to the US region, gives,

About 4,320,000 results for "so great of a".

That equally well proves that Americans are more focussed on trivialities in order to have got another post off.

And that something worth saying is about 1/80th as motivating to post here as low intensity light dribble is in the USA. (see Eva's Wine Cellar thread).

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@JTT,

Did you know JT that when the Constitution was more or less agreed it was handed over to a Committee of Style for touching up. The final version was the result of the deliberations.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

In the greasy log pillow fight missing with a swipe dunks you because slippery thighs have very little grip.

And his cock can't help, because it's really (I mean really) small.

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@McTag,

McTag wrote:

Some of the discourse here has deviated from the purely academic, I've noticed.

You don't say!

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@spendius,

Three posts and not a word on the actual language issue. What was that you said about the whole point of language is to convey meaning.

Quote:

And leave ol' Henry out of it eh? I might have to talk dirty if he is the subject. Real dirty.

Of course you want to leave Fowler out of it because it seems that that's where you get a lot of your weird ideas about language.

Did you miss this?

The problem in reading Fowler is that one never knows which way he is going to vote. Is he going to allow a usage because it is widespread, or is he going to condemn it for the same reason? ... The impression the entries give is that Fowler considers to be idiomatic what he himself uses. Usages he does not like are given such labels as 'ugly' (e.g. at historicity) or even 'evil' (e.g. at respectively).

How is a book that is a study in confusion supposed to help you, another study in confusion, sort out the complexities of language?

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@spendius,

Quote:

I explained the problem in the starter post and you have not raised any objection to that.

You forget that I have read some of your other offerings on language. I must admit that I haven't yet dared to make an attempt at translating it, Spendi.

Plus I've been busy sorting out your other twaddle, which you've quickly abandoned, in addition to trying to drag Contrex out of his inferiority complex.

How do you go this distance into a thread ignoring Contrex's contention that a person using of in this type of collocation "label[s] themselves American pretty reliably"?

1 Reply

@nateriver,

Quote:

Lix explained, "I was not as great of a reader as everybody else in the class was...

I can understand the meaning of the sentence. But, I can't understand the grammar of it. If you exclude comparative, as ~ as, what sentence will it be?
I was not of reader?? or I was not great of a reader??. This sentence is right grammatically??

Excluding the comparative doesn't help us in determining how grammatical the example is, Nate. In the example without the "suspect" 'of',

I was not as great a reader as everybody else in the class was.

when we remove the comparative, as ~ as, we encounter the same unnatural English.

I was not great a reader everybody else in the class was.

Quote:

I could understand it if this sentence were like this : I was not as great a reader as everybody else in the class was...
But why of?? why did the author put the word, 'of', in the sentence??
It isn't a typo. 100% right sentence grammatically, although I can't understand why the sentence needs of! Please enlighten me.

I wish I could but at this moment I most certainly can't. I would be interested to hear how your teachers, or anyone for that matter, has explained this.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT, you've just written some gobbledegook and been able to conclude that you don't know the answer.

You could have said it simpler and without circumlocution.

For the answer, I refer the reader to my earlier posts.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

That should be obvious to a student of language like yourself, Set.

You just had a tiff with Izzy about this very thing in another thread. What might it be that prevents you from making these simple connections?

A desire to turn the rest of the world into America. He gets really upset with those of us who do things differently.

He doesn't like The Clash because their anti-fascist message upsets his imperialist sensibilities.

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This has turned into one of those deathless pissing matches. You boys have fun, now.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

This has turned into one of those deathless pissing matches. You boys have fun, now.

JTT believed he could win the match, but didn't open his fly and get his weiner out first, with the result that his breeches are now soaked, and will shortly begin to smell.

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Here, let's keep the stupidity alive . . . stink, his breeches will begin to stink . . .

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@JTT,

Quote:

You forget that I have read some of your other offerings on language. I must admit that I haven't yet dared to make an attempt at translating it, Spendi.

First I'm confused and now I am forgetful. That's two wild swings of the pillow, two dunkings for you and I am offering best of five to keep the audience amused.

I could write a short essay on your use of "dared" and "translating" as conversational gambits, habits, to cover up laziness or hopeless reading capacity on your part. Such usages were what led me to think you are a female. One of those who talk down to people from the raised desk some idiotic appointments committee set them upon due to them being the niece of one of the influential members who was confident they could satisfactorily stamp the date in a library book in the genre of which Destry Rides Again, Blondes Ain't Dumb and The Constitution Made Simple might serve as typical examples.

I dare guess, though I'll admit I might be wrong, that the "it" refers to this post of mine--

Quote:

So what? These questions are about entertainment.

I prefer the original. "I was not as great of a reader as everybody else in the class was..." is stylish. Why would one expect the dumbest English student in the class to express herself grammatically? The best student is likely not so hot.

The idiom is not, in this case, that of a special argot, but of the natural urge to self-denigration which is so often the tone of the superior person. The corollary being equally true.

Somebody using the expression might be tempted to end it with "were...". Then you could all have had a field day.

which I think is self-explanatory. It needs neither daring nor translating to read it. And by "read" I mean to comprehend my mental state when I wrote it.

Even across the centuries most of us know what Manasseh Cutler's mental state was when he wrote that Elbridge Gerry's wife was "young, very handsome and exceedingly amiable". I feel we should all aim at that sort of clarity when we are reading.

I don't believe you have been busy sorting out my other twaddle. And I don't believe I have quickly abandoned the twaddle either. Nor do I believe that contrex has an inferiority complex to be dragged out of. I do believe that "drag" was a solecism.

I don't consider 4 pages to be any notable distance in a thread. I have been 8 years on two threads about the teaching of evolution. As I have only ever met one American for a short period of time, which seemed quite long when it was happening, I don't feel qualified to comment on what contrex has said.

I have learned that Americans use assertions with a facility which is as admirable as it is ridiculous.

1 Reply

@McTag,

Quote:

JTT, you've just written some gobbledegook

Explain how you've come to that conclusion and we can discuss it, McTag. My guess is that Set thinks your contention is gobbledegook.

Quote:

For the answer, I refer the reader to my earlier posts.

And yet you didn't address Setanta's concerns despite there being no concern at all, within the limited parameters I have described.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

This has turned into one of those deathless pissing matches. You boys have fun, now.

Setanta, the language guru, takes a powder. Whodathunk it possible?

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@spendius,

I was not as great of a reader as everybody else in the class was...

Quote:

Many avid students of horseflesh have bowed to Lester Piggott's ability to read it at a glance.

Is it your contention that they all used the as [Adj] of a [Noun] as form?

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@spendius,

Quote:

And by "read" I mean to comprehend my mental state when I wrote it.

I think 'soused' could be an accurate description.

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@JTT,

Soused is not a mental state JT. It is a physical state. It provides access to mental states, and accentuates them, which water drinkers have no knowledge of.

There is an American expression which embraces both.

0 Replies

be of a reader. How can this sentence be right?

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