37
   

Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

 
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 07:38 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Oh.. so Obama tried to ban conceal and carry by NOT introducing any legislation to do so.


You must really want to hide the truth to twist my words so egregiously.

But no amount of twisting can change the reality that Barack Obama called for a federal ban on all civilian concealed carry when he was running for Senate.


Quote:
All of the candidates, except Hynes, said they opposed allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons. Hynes and Chico said states, not the federal government, should regulate the matter.

"I consider this an issue for the states to decide, not the federal government," Chico said.

Obama disagreed. He backed federal legislation that would ban citizens from carrying weapons, except for law enforcement. He cited Texas as an example of a place where a law allowing people to carry weapons has "malfunctioned" because hundreds of people granted licenses had prior convictions.

"National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents," Obama said.

http://web.archive.org/web/20081204033359/www.icadp.org/page236.html
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 03:22 am

Weapons are fascinating, there's no doubt about that. Magazines about firepower sell well, and museums have whole galleries devoted to the history of the subject.

When I was a lad, I had a great interest in all, from catapults and crossbows
to military hardware.

But I grew out of it.

Quite analagous to pornography, when you think about it. You know it's there, but it's better to steer clear of it.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 06:10 am
@parados,
Quote:
Sure.. and how many have been wounded and killed by that in the last 10 years in the US?


Ten years did you carefully picked that limit so the Federal building bombing was outside of your time window with the 168 dead and the 400 hundreds or so hurt?

Been any numbers of smaller bombing since then however it would be a pain to find and add up the total death tolls but off hand I bet I could find at least one bombing or set fire that kill more then 11 people as in the movie theater shootings.

And of course we had two attempts to bring down jet liners full of hundreds of people in that time window over the US that only god and two poor bombs making jobs cause to fail.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 06:46 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
But I grew out of it.

Quite analagous to pornography, when you think about it. You know it's there, but it's better to steer clear of it.


Why do freedom haters always engage in childish bigotry when they are prevented from violating people's civil rights?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 08:16 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
Weapons are fascinating, there's no doubt about that.
That is a run-on sentence; i.e., 2 sentences, punctuated as if thay were 1.




McTag wrote:
Magazines about firepower sell well, and museums have whole galleries devoted to the history of the subject.
Maybe, but not enuf.




McTag wrote:
When I was a lad, I had a great interest in all,
from catapults and crossbows to military hardware.
I remember the time leading up to my 3rd birthday,
but I cannot remember a time when I was not interested in weapons
of personal defense (guns & bladed weapons).
I clearly remember lying in bed, concentrating my attention on the revolvers
that I 'd seen on the hips of NYC Police. My fantasies drifted into misappropriation thereof;
(not just the gun, but the entire rig). I never executed that felony. Their guns were safe from me.




McTag wrote:
But I grew out of it.
U find it to your advantage to live in a state of helplessness?????
Unable to control a predatory emergency; there is a certain ignominy in that.




McTag wrote:
Quite analagous to pornography, when you think about it.
You know it's there, but it's better to steer clear of it.
Will u reveal how u have benefited from this practice??
or r we left to accept it on pure faith???





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 08:35 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Interests in weapons seems to be hard wire into the human male DNA as those without it did not on average get to live long enough to breed for most of our evolution.

Without weapons we would have been little more then prey animals instead of predators that hunt almost anything that move even it would seems up to mammoths.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 11:57 am
@parados,
They want to talk about bombings, or burnings, or just about any other means of destroying human life, because that's how they try to deny the problem of gun violence or dodge talking about it.

They also ignore the continuous shootings, including those of children, because of the number of easily available guns floating around that wind up in the wrong hands. And these also involve children being shot by other children.

Just look at what has recently been going on in New York City during this summer.
Quote:
Teen 'thug' busted for shooting four at B'klyn playground: police
By KIRSTAN CONLEY
August 17, 2012

A 15-year-old was arrested for a Monday shooting that injured four people at Fish Park in Brooklyn, police said.

Cops busted a teenage thug for shooting four other teens at a Brooklyn playground earlier this week, authorities said.

Darren Wint, 15, was nabbed Thursday for attempted murder after witnesses linked him to the attack, police said.

Wint rode a BMX bicycle into a crowded Fish Playground on Fulton Street in Brownsville where teens were playing basketball around 6:30 p.m., Monday.

Cops said he fired several shots.

Two 16-year-old boys were struck in the arm. A 13-year-old girl and an 18-year-old man suffered graze wounds to the back.

Wint was charged with four counts of criminal possession of a weapon and four counts of assault, in addition to the attempted murder charges.

Monday’s bloodshed was the latest in a series of shootings that have killed or wounded innocent bystanders at city playgrounds, basketball courts or streets this summer.

Four-year-old Lloyd Morgan was fatally shot by a stray bullet while near a basketball court at the Forest Houses in the Bronx on July 22.

Police believe 14-year-old honor student Kemar Bryan Brooks was also killed by a stray bullet July 26 while playing tennis in Haffen Park in the Bronx.

Three-year-old Isaiah Gonzalez was shot in the leg while playing in the sprinklers at the Roosevelt Houses in Bedford Stuyvesant and two-year-old Ariyanna Prince was shot in a drive-by shooting in Brownsville.

Thirteen-year-old Kentrell Simpson was also wounded in the shooting that injured Ariyanna, her father and three others.

One teen and two young adults were wounded by stray bullets from a shooting at the St. Nicholas Houses in Harlem June 3. That shooting killed 25-year-old Akeem Green.

And Five people were wounded at Harlem’s famed Rucker Park on July 25. Ricardo Laing, 24, from Westchester, was charged with attempted murder.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/teen_thug_busted_for_shooting_four_ouUCGvgFLZNaydTEmiQ8xM#ixzz23uv3JxT6


This 9 year old child was critically injured when a loaded gun in a 10 year old classmate's backpack discharged--in their classroom.
Quote:
The family of a young Washington state girl severely injured when a gun in a classmate's backpack went off filed a $10 million claim against the Bremerton school district Wednesday, saying it failed to heed clues that the boy might be dangerous.

Third-grader Amina Kocer-Bowman, now 9, spent about six weeks in the hospital, required numerous surgeries and suffered critical, lifelong injuries when the bullet pierced her internal organs and lodged in her spine on Feb. 22.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/08/15/wash-district-being-sued-over-backpack-shooting/#ixzz23uxbJo00

This child was hit by a stray bullet while riding in her parent's van.
Quote:

Friends hope prayer, love heal Ocoee girl shot by stray bullet
August 1, 2012|
By Susan Jacobson, Orlando Sentinel

Friends and family of Danielle Sampson came together Wednesday night in the hope that prayer and love would heal the 15-year-old Ocoee girl, who was shot in the head Sunday while riding through Pine Hills in her parents' van...

Danielle was hit by a stray bullet as people in two vehicles exchanged gunfire on North Avenue at Powers Drive, investigators said....
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-01/news/os-teen-shot-prayer-vigil-20120801_1_ocoee-girl-stray-bullet-hope-church


This 16 year old was killed last month while sitting on her porch.
Quote:
Bridgeport girl, shot after Sweet 16 party, dies
by Stacy Davis and Michael P. Mayko
July 21, 2012

BRIDGEPORT -- A teenage girl is dead, less than a day after gunmen sprayed the Brooks Street porch she was on, striking her in the head and wounding her two friends.

Keijahnae "Nu Nu" Robinson, 15, was pronounced dead at Bridgeport Hospital Saturday evening, city officials said.

The two friends, a 15-year-old male and a 17-year-old female, also shot in the attack, are being treated for non-life-threatening injuries.

Robinson became the 13th homicide in Bridgeport. Just two hours before she was shot, Mi Lin Zhao, the 30-year-old owner of the New Hong Kong Chinese Restaurant on Wood Avenue, became homicide number 12, killed while fending off armed robbers on his way home.

"My thoughts and prayers are with the families of Keijahnae Robinson and Mi Lin Zhao,"Mayor Bill Finch said last night. "Both are innocent victims of the widespread use of illegal guns in our society."...

"We will continue to work tirelessly with the state, federal authorities and leaders at every level to tackle the extremely tough issue of gun violence that is impacting cities all over our country," the mayor said...

He also promised "to advocate for the closure of illegal gun sale loopholes through the Mayors Against Illegal Guns effort."
http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Bridgeport-girl-shot-after-Sweet-16-party-dies-3725251.php#ixzz23uyvctQv


Look at some of the children hit by stray bullets just this week...
Quote:

Girl, 12, wounded on her front porch on Southwest Side
Eighth-grader shot in leg while doing her homework
August 17, 2012
By William Lee, Chicago Tribune reporter

A 12-year-old girl was shot in the leg as she did her homework outside her Southwest Side home Wednesday evening, Chicago police said.

A gunman in his late teens or early 20s fired about 10 shots at the home in the 6500 block of South Talman Avenue in the Marquette Park neighborhood about 6:30 p.m., police said...

A recent Tribune analysis found that the police district that covers the Chicago Lawn and Marquette Park neighborhoods has seen more children wounded in gun violence this year than any other of the city's 22 police districts.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-17/news/ct-met-girl-shot-homework-20120817_1_front-porch-marquette-park-chicago-lawn


Quote:

Detroit man arrested in shooting of 3-year-old girl who was shot multiple times but survived
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
August 18, 2012

DETROIT — Authorities say a 20-year-old man has been arrested on charges related to the shooting of a 3-year-old girl in Detroit.

Police said Vernon Ray Coles of Detroit was arrested in Warren and charged Friday with two counts each of assault with intent to murder and felonious assault. He is expected to be arraigned Saturday at Detroit's 36th District Court.

Authorities say the girl was shot Tuesday after a neighborhood dispute escalated...
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/f7b0e8f8a4094e29bfe57da02b0e9670/MI--Girl-Shot-Detroit


Quote:
Police: 11-year-old girl shot in Lawrence
AP / August 17, 2012

LAWRENCE, Mass. (AP) — Police say a sleeping 11-year-old Lawrence girl was grazed by a bullet fired from outside her home.

The girl was shot in the shoulder at about 4 a.m. Friday and her injuries are not considered life threatening. She was not targeted.

Police say the shooting stemmed from a dispute involving tenants on the second floor of the three-story home.

A man apparently involved in an argument with second-floor tenants returned later and fired several shots at the building from a car parked outside.

The girl lives in the first floor. Police recovered eight or nine shell casings at the scene.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2012/08/17/police-year-old-girl-shot-lawrence/usQzXpfzXMsaB2mYUCTn7M/story.html


Is it any wonder that people are pressing for better control of who can obtain guns?
Quote:
Shooting victims press Obama, Romney for tougher gun screenings
By Mike Lillis - 08/17/12

Victims of the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting massacre are urging President Obama and Mitt Romney to support tougher screenings for potential gun buyers.

The advocates say the string of summer shooting sprees around the country make clear that gaps in the background-check system — gaps Congress attempted to close following the Tech tragedy — remain open and need addressing.Victims of the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting massacre are urging President Obama and Mitt Romney to support tougher screenings for potential gun buyers.

They're pressing Obama and Romney, the GOP's presumed presidential nominee, to define a strategy for keeping guns out of the hands of those prohibited from having them.

"We know firsthand that gaps and flaws in our nation’s gun laws allow guns to fall too easily into the hands of criminals and other dangerous people," 67 Virginia Tech survivors and victim relatives wrote Thursday to Obama and Romney. "Now is the time to fix our nation’s broken gun laws, but we need our nation’s leaders to tell us the specific steps you will take to prevent more bloodshed."

A series of high-profile shootings in recent weeks has thrust the country's gun laws — among the most lenient in the world — back into the national spotlight. Last month in Aurora, Colo., a lone gunman stormed a packed movie theater and shot 70 people, killing 12. On Aug. 5, a lone shooter entered a Sikh temple outside Milwaukee and killed five members of the group. And on Monday, a man facing eviction near Texas A&M University shot six people, killing two, including the constable serving the eviction notice.

Both Obama and Romney have reacted to the shootings by offering condolences, but neither presidential contender has proposed a specific plan designed to prevent similar tragedies in the future.

Obama came the closest, suggesting after Aurora that policymakers should do "everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons."

"We should check someone's criminal record before they can check out a gun seller," he said.

But the president also hasn't stuck his neck out for tougher laws, citing the difficulty — some say futility — of moving such proposals through Congress in the current political environment.

Romney — who was a champion of tougher gun laws as governor of Massachusetts — has rejected new restrictions altogether.

"I don't think gun laws are the answer," Romney told Piers Morgan after the Aurora shooting.

Such responses don't sit well with the victims of gun violence, who are growing more forceful in their calls for the nation's leaders to act.

"[We] demand a plan from you to fix the broken background check system and reduce gun violence," the Virginia Tech victims wrote Thursday.

The letter highlights the shifting tactics adopted by gun reformers in recent years. No longer are they arguing against gun ownership — a 2008 Supreme Court decision pretty much settled that matter — but instead they're fighting for ways to keep violent people from obtaining the weapons they would use on others.

That debate centers around the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), an FBI database through which licensed gun dealers are required to screen potential buyers before making a sale. Under federal law, felons, illegal immigrants, spousal abusers and the severely mentally ill are barred from buying or owning firearms.

The system is largely voluntary, however, as states are encouraged — but not required — to report such information to NICS. Additionally, unlicensed gun sellers are not required to screen buyers at all — an enormous hole in the screening process that allows most anyone to purchase firearms....
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/244199-shooting-victims-press-obama-romney-for-tougher-gun-screenings


And yet, the NRA, and the gun enthusists in this thread, continue to oppose anything that smacks of "gun control" and any attempts to curb the gun violence. And that's the attitude that helps to keep guns in the hands of the wrong people.
Quote:
NRA Locked in Gun Battle With Pennsylvania Mayors Over Town Laws
By William Selway - Aug 16, 2012

Pennsylvania’s mayors are waging a running gun battle with the National Rifle Association.

First, mayors backed a statewide law aimed at cracking down on trafficking by forcing residents to report lost and stolen firearms. The NRA opposed it, and it died in the Legislature.

Then, more than two dozen localities, led by Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter, passed similar requirements on their own. An NRA-led lawsuit failed after judges said plaintiffs didn’t have standing to go to court. Now the gun-rights organization is championing a bill that would let it sue cities over the reporting rules -- even if no one is charged for breaking them.

“We continue to fight the fight realizing we don’t have enough political clout to win the battle,” said Allentown Mayor Ed Pawlowski, a Democrat whose city passed the rules. “All we’re trying to do is protect our citizens.”

What’s unfolding in Pennsylvania, where 384 people were slain last year in its four biggest cities, shows how aggressive the NRA can be in fighting what it sees as challenges to gun rights. With Congress loath to act, the battles have shifted to state capitals, where the NRA has successfully backed more expansive self-defense laws, helped defeat measures aimed at identifying guns used in crimes and supported challenges to cities that pass firearm rules...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-16/nra-locked-in-gun-battle-with-pennsylvania-mayors-over-town-laws.html







BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 12:14 pm
@firefly,
So Firefly you are going to wave your magic wand and get over 300 millions firearms to disappear?

The Federal and states governments together can not make it hard it get a gun in the US for anyone willing to break any law you can get the government to pass.

Hell after billions spend on the so call war on drugs every year for decades no one who wish to buy drugs ever had have a problem finding them for sale.

Bet even not having one person I know of who used drugs and have not touch any illegal drugs myself for 40 years or so I could get into my car and have any drug you name back into the house within two hours.

Hell people still can buy illegal guns in merry old England and I would bet the same two hours would do for finding and buying a firearm after landing in London.

The only thing you can do is interfere with law abiding citizens from being arm to roughly the same degree as the criminals.

You can make it far safer for gunmen who are using their firearms to rob and to kill by reducing the likelihood that those gentlemen will run into arm citizens.

So to sum up you seems to wish to make it safer for the killers to kill or rob or rape or what have you.

Good going...............as we must protect the killers and lessor criminals from the chance of running into a citizen that can fight back.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 12:31 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The Federal and states governments together can not make it hard it get a gun in th US...

They certainly can make it considerably more difficult than it is now for the wrong people to obtain guns. But the NRA doesn't want to make it easier to keep guns out of the wrong hands, or to curb the number of illegal guns in circulation--and apparently neither do you.
Quote:
The only thing you can do is interfere with law abiding citizens from being arm to roughly the same degree as the criminals.

Why should law-abiding citizens be afraid of better background checks, or necessary reporting of stolen guns, or registration measures, etc.?
Quote:
So to sum up you wish to make it safer for the killers to kill or rob or rape or what have you.

How about making it safer for children not to be hit by stray bullets while on their porches, or in their beds, or in a playground, or making it safer for people to congregate at movie theaters, or houses of worship--since we've seen scores of innocent people killed and wounded by gun violence in those locations in just the last month.

Does the problem of gun violence concern you at all? Do you even recognize that there is a problem?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 12:38 pm
@firefly,
Come to think about it given the supply and demand elements in the firearm market as in anything else the more weapons that can no longer be sold legally in the open firearm market the greater the supply will be in the illegally market as more firearms disappear into the black market and the cheaper will be the price in the no question ask private firearm market.

So you are not only likely to protect criminals from arm citizens but make their illegal weapons cheaper to buy.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 12:41 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
They certainly can make it considerably more difficult than it is now for the wrong people to obtain guns


LOL like they had make it hard to get illegal drugs?

They can make it harder to go into a gun store and buy a gun but not to going to a low level bar and finding someone willing to sell them anything they would care to own in the way of a firearm.

And of course we now have the darknet coming on line that allow the selling of almost anything including illegal weapon and paying for them with untraceable digital money.

See what is for sell on the silk road marketplace on the darknet.

Hmm maybe I will go there and cut and past the current list of firearms for sale.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 01:58 pm
@BillRM,
Interesting the silk road is still selling illegal drugs but they shut down their weapons center.

Of course there are others such sites on the darknet that do still sell weapons and if firefly get her wish there will be far more such sites as the profit in weapons go up as a result.

If anyone wish to look at a large market place in the darknet you need to download and install tor from torporject.org and after getting onto the tor net enter http://dkn255hz262ypmii.onion
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 02:06 pm
@BillRM,
Spend a lot of time on the darknet do you?
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 02:09 pm
@BillRM,
Here is a buy a weapon site on the darknet.

http://xqz3u5drneuzhaeo.onion/users/synaptic/index.php?aux_page=aux2

Concealed Carry
Glock 19 ฿259.95
Glock 26 ฿259.95
Full Sized Pistols
Beretta 92FS A1 Full Sized Pistol ฿249.95
Rock Island 1911 .45 ACP ฿206.67
Glock
Glock 17 ฿259.95
Glock 19 ฿259.95
Glock 19 Compensated ฿269.95
Glock 26 ฿259.95
Hand Cannons
Smith & Wesson 500 ฿429.95
Pocket Pistols
Beretta Bobcat .22LR Pocket Pistol ฿109.95
Beretta Tomcat .32 ACP Pocket Pistol ฿139.95
Ruger LCP ฿209.95
Ruger LCP with Crimson Trace Laser ฿249.95
Rifles
AR-15 & AK-47
Bushmaster A1 AR-15 ฿339.95
Century Arms AK-47 with Bayonet Lug ฿218.95
Shotguns
KelTec Shotgun with 14 Round Capactiy ฿449.95



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0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 02:20 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Spend a lot of time on the darknet do you?


Not as must as I do here by far but I find all aspects of the internet interesting and will worth researching.

By the way you hear this first from me but with untraceable digit currency such as bitcoin coming on line I fear that kidnapping might reappear on a large scale in the West as the main weakness is getting the ransom funds into the kidnappers hands without leading the police to them in one manner or another.

Bitcoins and such seems to end that problem.

We live in interesting times indeed.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 02:26 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Does the problem of gun violence concern you at all? Do you even recognize that there is a problem?

I should have known I was asking you a rhetorical question when I said that.

You can't even recognize the problem, and how the NRA contributes to it, so you are understandably quite clueless about addressing the problem. Which, of course, is why you keep evading the issue.

All of those innocent people getting shot, including all of those children hit by stray bullets, doesn't seem to bother you one bit.

That you oppose better background checks, better reporting of stolen guns, and better registration efforts, makes people like you, and the NRA, part of the problem with gun violence in this country. You help to keep all those illegal guns in circulation, and you help to keep them in the hands of the wrong people.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 02:38 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Spend a lot of time on the darknet do you?

Only when he's not searching for new porn sites. Laughing

He obviously supports buying guns that way.

Do you hear him suggesting any curbs or checks on internet sales of guns?

Do you hear him, in any way, acknowledging that there is a problem with gun violence in this country--a problem which should be addressed?

He's consistent--he also denies there are problems with rape, child pornography,and drunk driving--so why should gun violence be any different?

He's also deluded if he thinks carrying his gun is really going to offer him any protection from the gun violence that's going on. He's just as likely to be hit by a stray bullet, or shot in a mall or movie theater by some nut, whether he's packing a gun or not. And it's his closed-minded attitude that helps to put guns in the hands of those who'd be shooting those bullets at him.

BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 02:46 pm
@firefly,
Firefly what you seems not to understand is that all those checks are worthless and will not stop one child from being hit by a stray bullet or one gang banger from owing an AK-47.

The people who wish to own firearms and can not pass those checks will just buy the guns from private individuals or use a straw buyer at the gun store or order it off the darknet or...............

Resources should be spend doing something useful not making people like you happy by giving honest citizens more hoops to jump through.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 03:00 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
He obviously supports buying guns that way.

Do you hear him suggesting any curbs or checks on internet sales of guns?


Let see first I do not have any bitcoins so I had not purchase anything off the darknet todate.

Just find it an interesting place to look around in.

Now the whole idea Firefly of a darknet is that the government can not interfere or regulate weapons sales or drugs sales or anything else on it and most of the things offer are illegal now under current laws.

The weapon site I had posted info on is breaking all kinds of US federal laws at the moment such as shipping guns to private persons and removing serial numbers and so on.

They are in fact doing so in a very very open manner protected only by the technology of the darknet and the tor system. Oh and bitcoins.

The government does not need any added laws to come down on these people as if they can be track down they are looking at decades in Federal prison.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 03:20 pm
@firefly,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16801382

The dark web: Guns and drugs for sale on the internet's secret black market
By Adrian Goldberg

Out of reach of regular internet searches is the secretive online world known as the 'dark web' - anonymous, virtually untraceable global networks used by political activists and criminals alike.

"You have the availability of multiple dealers so you can compare products - and customers can review the dealer's product, too."

American student, David - not his real name - explains why he chooses to buy illegal drugs on the so-called 'dark web'.

"You don't have to go in front of a street dealer, where there might be a risk of violence," he adds.

And it is not just drugs which are available on this online black market. Fake passports, guns - even child pornography.

Anonymous drug dealers

The dark web is facilitated by a global network of computer users who believe the internet should operate beyond the supervision of law enforcement agencies.

Advertisement
The BBC's 5 live Investigates team found class A drugs and guns for sale
It allows users like David, and those who sell him drugs, to remain anonymous. Users often do not know the real identity of the fellow users they are dealing with, and it is very difficult - although not impossible - for authorities to track them.

5 live Investigates spoke online with a number of anonymous dark web users.

One told the programme "I feel much safer [online] than doing transactions in the real world. I used to sell drugs in the real world. Nowadays I almost strictly use the dark web for any drug transaction."

Another said: "If you're young and trying to find a contact for drugs harder than marijuana it is practically impossible without risking exposure and arrest."

Getting access to the dark web depends on users downloading freely available software, based on peer-to-peer file-sharing technology, which effectively scrambles the location of users and dark web websites.

It is not just a criminal domain, either - the dark web has proved a crucial tool in concealing the identity of political campaigners living in countries with oppressive governments.

It is said to have helped some of the organisers behind the Arab Spring protests.

That said, the potential for criminal enterprise is significant.

Researchers from the 5 live Investigates team successfully accessed the dark web, and made a purchase of the hallucinogen DMT - a class A drug, ranking it on a par with heroin and cocaine.

An extra layer of secrecy is added to the dark web by the use of Bitcoins - an electronic currency which is used legitimately by online gamers, but which can be used by criminals to mask their financial transactions.

Listen to the full report on 5 live Investigates on Sunday, 5 February at 21:00 GMT or download the 5 live Investigates podcast

After a wait of around 3 weeks a package arrived in the post with a Spanish postmark. Concealed between two thin strips of cardboard was a white powder.

Analytical Services International, at St George's University of London examined the drugs.

The lab test proved the powder was DMT - and that the dark web works.

We have no idea who sent the drugs to us. They have now been destroyed by the lab as possession of DMT can lead to a jail sentence of up to seven years.

Dealers of DMT can face a maximum life term in prison.

But what is being done to police the criminal activity that takes place on the dark web?

"Police officers on both sides of the Atlantic say the same thing," says John Carr, an internet security advisor to the British government and the United Nations.

"We don't have enough courts, we don't have enough judges, and we don't have enough police officers to tackle the real scale of illegal behaviour on the internet.

"What that means is increasingly we're going to have to look to technical solutions, we're going to have to look to the internet industry to help civil society deal with this really enormous problem the dark web has created," Mr Carr told the BBC.

"The police service is acutely aware of the large and growing problem of cybercrime and is actively working with police nationally and internationally along with the private sector in a bid to combat criminality on the web," says Deputy Assistant Commissioner Janet Williams, the lead on e-crime for the Association of Chief Police Officers.

Yet for all their efforts much of the illegal activity on the dark web remains beyond the reach of the police, and to some supporters of the dark web, its anonymity is its virtue.

They point to the protection it has offered to anti-government bloggers who spread the message of revolution during the Arab Spring.

And they argue that it continues to provide cover for dissidents who might otherwise face persecution in China.

For US student and dark web user David, it is about freedom of choice:

"Many people share the belief, myself included, that drugs should be legal and the dark web is that belief put into action."

You can listen to the full report on 5 live Investigates on Sunday, 5 February at 21:00 GMT on BBC 5 live.

Listen again via the 5 live website or by downloading the 5 live Investigates podcast.

Send your comments and stories to 5 live Investigates

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