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Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

 
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 04:11 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
It is unlikely that many of the people who wish to claim I am nuts can show a single point I'm wrong about.


You are wrong to say that gun control proponents are freedom haters. Dead wrong. Going in for cheapskate lies.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:44 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
oralloy wrote:
That is a contradiction. And who says they disagreed with me on gun laws?


I do. The stats of opinion polls do. I have met many people who have fought for freedom and survived and would never support your position. The British Legion does not support your position.


Well, if any of them come here and insist on violating my Constitutional rights, I'll be sure to call them a freedom hater.



spendius wrote:
I have agreed that I would probably have voted "aye" on the 2nd.


Yes, but you seem not to understand why everyone wanted it.

It had nothing to do with shoring up national defenses.



spendius wrote:
I am objecting to you calling people who disagree with you "freedom haters".


It is legitimate to refer to people as what they actually are.



spendius wrote:
You can't wrap yourself in the freedom flag with words.


Yes I can.



spendius wrote:
Only people who have fought for freedom can do that.


The notion that only people who participate in the military should be allowed social standing is Fascism.

American is not a Fascist nation.



spendius wrote:
You are blaspheming our Battle of Britain pilots in one sweet, easy breath.


You are the one who brought them up and then suggested that they have a loathsome point of view.



spendius wrote:
And I feel sure the NRA doesn't use that expression. Or your Veterans associations.


So?



spendius wrote:
Our Police Service does not support your position.


I'd think not. They like their serfs nice and compliant.

I imagine that the idea of free people refusing to surrender their liberty would horrify your police.



spendius wrote:
You're the real freedom hater because you use emotive propaganda to fill a void in your argument.


No, I'm a freedom defender.

And if you think there is some sort of void in my argument, go ahead and try to point it out.

(I'm betting you can't point out any such voids.)



spendius wrote:
Cuddle your guns. Stroke them. Admire them. I don't care.


Your bigotry is offensive and uncalled-for.



spendius wrote:
Just don't accuse your opponents of being freedom haters because they are not.


Sure they are. Look at all the endless ranting on this thread about how terrible our freedom is.



spendius wrote:
I haven't invented things to call your side.


You do occasionally post bigoted stereotypes about us. And you are far from the only poster in this thread.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:45 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
You are wrong to say that gun control proponents are freedom haters. Dead wrong. Going in for cheapskate lies.


No, it is a fair term for people who object to the idea that Americans have the right to carry guns in public.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:50 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Quote:
But Scalia left open a big window for government gun control.

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited," he wrote in the syllabus of his opinion. "It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the [Second] Amendment or state analogs. The [Supreme] Court's opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/07/29/Under-the-US-Supreme-Court-Gun-control-in-the-post-Aurora-world/UPI-13211343547000/#ixzz23lm55zoI


"It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose"


Yes, but as has already been repeatedly explained to you, the boundaries of these limits are determined by the longstanding judicial principles of rational basis/intermediate/strict scrutiny.

Bans on harmless cosmetic features would violate even rational basis review.

There is no need to bother determining whether limits on magazine capacity would pass muster. Your insistence on tying such proposals to clearly unconstitutional measures dooms them from the start.

"When your opponents insist on immolating themselves, stand aside and let them get on with it."
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:58 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Is sneaky bad?


It is when you are offering your hand in friendship with a concealed weapon on your person. It's real bad.


I've never been offended by other people carrying concealed weapons.

Many jurisdictions in the US demand that if someone carries a gun in public, that it be done concealed.

It would theoretically be possible to legitimately restrict carry to only open carry, but only if clear limits are first placed on the police to curtail them from hassling people who are carrying guns.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:59 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Antonin Scalia: There Are 'Undoubtedly' Limits To A Person's Right To Carry Guns
7/29/12

WASHINGTON -- Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said Sunday that there are "undoubtedly" limits to a person's right to bear arms under the Second Amendment, but that future court cases will have to decide where to draw the line.

During an appearance on "Fox News Sunday," Scalia was asked whether lawmakers have the right to ban high-capacity gun magazines without violating a person's constitutional right to bear arms. The question comes less than two weeks after the Colorado shooting massacre that left 12 dead and dozens more injured -- and at a time when neither President Barack Obama nor Congress appear willing to touch the issue of gun control.

"We'll see," Scalia said, suggesting that future court cases will determine what limitations on modern-day weapons are permissible.

"Some undoubtedly are [permissible] because there were some that were acknowledged at the time" the Constitution was written, Scalia said. He cited a practice from that era known as "frighting," where people "carried around a really horrible weapon just to scare people, like a head axe or something. That was, I believe, a misdemeanor."

“So yes, there are some limitations that can be imposed," Scalia said. "What they are will depend on what the society understood were reasonable limitations at the time."

The conservative justice notably authored the Supreme Court's 2008 opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, which ruled that the Second Amendment protects a person's right to bear arms and struck down a D.C. ban on handguns. The court also ruled, though, that "the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/29/antonin-scalia-guns_n_1715969.html


Awww. The quotation was cut off right before the part where Justice Scalia said it was possible that ordinary American civilians have the right to have Stinger Missiles.

http://able2know.org/topic/195698-1
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 09:58 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Many jurisdictions in the US demand that if someone carries a gun in public, that it be done concealed.


You can have it both ways to a degree as most gun stores sell belt pouches design to hold handguns so anyone in the know can tell that person is likely to be arm without breaking the conceal carrier laws if they had that type of pouch on their belt.

My wife will also used her gun pouch to carry small objects beside guns and I still can remember seeing the security people getting uptight when they spotted my wife coming to a criuse ship security check point.

I laugh at the time and told them to relaxed as she is not carrying when I saw their reactions and we showed them all she had was her passport and so on in the pouch.

Another way around the not carrying a firearm openly is to used a pre-1898 firearm as a bar owner did when taking funds to his bank.

He in fact used a civil war black power revolter that look like it could take down an elephant with one shot and no one ever try to ripped him off on the way to the bank drop box.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 01:24 pm
@BillRM,
Error-- see next post.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 01:34 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
He in fact used a civil war black power revolter that look like it could take down an elephant with one shot and no one ever try to ripped him off on the way to the bank drop box.


I went to the bank, often twice a week, and there were usually a dozen or so people in the queue. I assume the queue was more or less the same all day long and all week long. I never heard of anybody trying anything on with any of these people over a period of decades. None of them were carrying any sort of weapon as far as I could see and I never did. It's very odd how you should think that only the revolver deterred attackers.

We had about seven banks and they were all equally busy all day, every day all year long for donkey's years. Never heard of anybody being robbed in all that time.

I think the risk was so low that anybody who felt it pressing in upon them probably never emerged from a locked room.

William James, a famous American psychologist and philosopher said that we do not run away because we are afraid but are afraid because we run away. Prof.Skinner, another famous American p and p, agreed. Some people like being afraid. That's why there are horror movies and books.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 01:34 pm
@spendius,
That nice but look up the crime rate for the cities of Homestead and Florida city in Miami Dade county Florida where the bar is located.

I had have friends beaten and rob in those two cities in fact the wife of the owner of a Itailan restaurant gotten rob and beaten so badly she was in the hospital for a week in the back parking lot of the restaurant as an arm security guard was seeing out employees leaving from the front parking lot.

Not part of Miami-Dade I normally go without being arm with the footnote that people knew of the bar owner and knew he was carrying fairly large sums of money to be drop off at the drop off box late at night.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 01:46 pm
@spendius,
Footnote the bar itself was a small safe area as it was normally full of biker types and the parking lot was cover with cameras that the customers could and did monitor themselves to make damn sure that the cars and the motor bikes outside was not being fool with.

Other then maybe a bar that cops hang out at this was one of the safest places in the county.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 01:47 pm
@BillRM,
What to you pay the cops to do over there? Is it performing for the cameras after the event.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 02:07 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
What to you pay the cops to do over there? Is it performing for the cameras after the event.


Well they are doing something as two Homestead cops are just now being charge with beating up members of the public without cause.

Now you can tell me that there are no areas in say the city of London that it would be unwise to go into at night.

Footnote I once walk into the Homestead police station for some reason or other and found the cops was behind armor glass similar to a bank.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:12 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Footnote I once walk into the Homestead police station for some reason or other and found the cops was behind armor glass similar to a bank.


You can't blame them after all your talk about self defence.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:14 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
You can't blame them after all your talk about self defence.



???????????????????????????????????/
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:16 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Well they are doing something as two Homestead cops are just now being charge with beating up members of the public without cause.


What's your evidence that it was without cause?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:17 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Now you can tell me that there are no areas in say the city of London that it would be unwise to go into at night.


I think it is unwise to go into London at any time.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:19 pm
@spendius,
I said they are being charge but from the news stories they got careless at what they did in front of their own police cars video recorders.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 07:13 pm
@oralloy,
Oh.. so Obama tried to ban conceal and carry by NOT introducing any legislation to do so.

Wow.. that guy is sneaky. Next thing you know he will convince us he was born in Kenya by NOT providing a Kenyan birth certificate.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 07:14 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Gasoline burns and explosives surrounded by ball bearings/nails cause far more humane wounds.................LOL.

Sure.. and how many have been wounded and killed by that in the last 10 years in the US?
 

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