37
   

Mass Shooting At Denver Batman Movie Premiere

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 03:19 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
But as usual, the freedom haters are steeped in ignorance and idiocy.


I suppose that's another of those facts you accuse some of us of not addressing.

Quote:
The NRA's power over Congress stems not from money, but from the fact that they have legions of loyal voters who will vote for or against any politician in any election based on the NRA's say so.

The NRA's word holds the power to throw many politicians out of office and end their careers for good. That is what gives the NRA unmatched power over Congress.


That's a bit confusing. I thought people try to become Congress members for the money.

Quote:
We just refuse to give it up.


Some people are like that with rag dolls. And model train kits.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 05:53 am
@spendius,
Quote:
But as usual, the freedom haters are steeped in ignorance and idiocy.
spendius wrote:
I suppose that's another of those facts you accuse some of us of not addressing.


Quote:
The NRA's power over Congress stems not from money,
but from the fact that they have legions of loyal voters
who will vote for or against any politician in any election based on the NRA's say so
.
That is very, very true.



Oralloy wrote:
The NRA's word holds the power to throw many politicians out of office
and end their careers for good.
That is what gives the NRA unmatched power over Congress.
YES; its democracy in action, in the purest possible sense.

spendius wrote:
That's a bit confusing.
I thought people try to become Congress members for the money.
The job does not pay much.
I think thay get less than $200,000; maybe around $175,000,
but thay DON'T wanna lose the power. Thay care a LOT about remaining in office.
I gotta go; I'm leaving for a convention in Upstate NY.
I expect to be back in about a week. Best wishes





David
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 06:06 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
The NRA's power over Congress stems not from money,
but from the fact that they have legions of loyal voters
who will vote for or against any politician in any election based on the NRA's say so.

That is very, very true.


That is very, very false and self-evidently so. The NRA is powerless without money and voting a politician out denies him or her the money derived from the office.

At the Convention in 1787 which drew up the Constitution George Washington supported the motion of no payments for representatives. He was defeated.

And there are other sources of income for congressmen and senators beside the official salaries.

Most of them would change their tune as rapidly as they change their underpants if supporting the NRA cost them their position. A chameleon might be a better simile.

I can imagine a class of 7 year olds listening to that naive nonsense in rapt admiration Dave.

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 06:21 am
@spendius,
Even a herd of cows aligns itself according to the direction of the wind when grazing. I presume because the head is less sensitive to draught than the other end.

If congress is as highly principled as Dave tries to make out why is it so low in the approval ratings? Surely it can't be because voters object to high principles?

I accept that American gun laws will not be seriously revised because Americans are obviously prepared to accept the collateral damage guns cause in the service of a higher principle.

One single mass shooting here caused a complete revision. No particular negative side effects have been noticed by anybody I know. And the revision only related to shotguns as private ownership of other types of guns was already banned. Thankfully.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 06:56 am
@spendius,
Quote:
George Washington supported the motion of no payments for representatives. He was defeated.


Good old George always wished to pretend to the world that he did not care for money however for example he took no salary for being the military head of the revolution but more then made you for it with his expense account.

See a book by the name of "George Washington expense Account" as a CPA went through his accounts and pointed out the padding old George seems to had done.

All in all the conclusion was that he came out far ahead in the end by foregoing a salary.

Second note he did take the salary for being President for two terms and if my memory is correct that was a sum of 25,000 a year IE not bad for the late 1700s.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 07:39 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
But I should remind you that clip size has zero to do with whether a gun is an assault weapon.

Oh.. so you have been going on and on about the assault weapons ban and didn't read that legislation either?

You did argue that the size of the clip was a cosmetic feature unless you want to admit that you don't know **** about what was in the legislation when the identified what was an assault weapon.
parados
 
  3  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 07:40 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

Do you know the difference between a driver's license and a car registration? The same sort of difference applies with guns.

Do you know the difference between a dog license and a driver's license?


By the way, my car registration comes with a license. I'll bet yours does too.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 08:13 am
@BillRM,
If you were to read my posts more carefully Bill you might notice that I referred to General Washington using my normal "tongue in cheek" manner.

But Mr Franklin not only gave his salary away to charity but he refused to profit from his invention of the lightning rod and his stove. Which gives a neat guide to how far you all from that most distinguished Founding Father. Like as far as it is possible to get. Which gives a neat guide to how idiotic it is to cite the Constitution to prop up some argument or other as a strategy to avoid propping up the argument with the real reasons which seem to me in this case to be--

a. Guns as an extension of sexual potency which is a big enough nuisance to begin with as an overview of the battlefield on which the bodies, mangled remains and last gaspers are strewn clearly shows. Why any normal man would seek to tweak his potency upwards I cannot imagine. Being a big softee and getting the sand kicked in your face brings out the very best in the most admirable type of woman. And as long as you have done your stint where guns are more important than boots, though not by a lot, the big softee side has permission thereafter. Being pitied is not as bad as it is often made out to be. All the women in my circle talk about their menfolk as if they are hamsters.



b. Guns as a protection against one's fellow man. The money and effort expended on the guns etc being the minimum required to achieve, or feel to be achieving, that objective. Bargain hunters will all agree with that. Expenditure over and above that minimum, a gold-coloured embroidery pattern on the leather of the holster for example, coming under section a. (see above). Or, as in Mr Holmes' case, as a measure of how scared witless of one's fellow men one has come to be. Which suggests that his body protection is normal for somebody as scared out of their wits as he must have been.

It logically follows that those citizens not wearing the kit Mr Holmes was wearing are not as scared of their fellow man as they make out they are. So those who do not wear such kits in the normal course of affairs, where it is not known who is or isn't packing, are doing faux scared witless and thus can be referred to section a. (see above).

Any psychologist analysing the loving attention paid in some of the posts here to the mechanics and the masculine words of technological jabbing sounds like Glock would go for a. in every case.

I don't think Sir Hohn Harrington received any royalties from his invention of the flush toilet without which modern cities are impossible. As a gentleman he installed the first one in his Godmother's chambers before completing his own. One really ought to keep track of the important events in history.

Try making a flush toilet starting from scratch. In your minds I mean.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 05:30 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
oralloy wrote:
But as usual, the freedom haters are steeped in ignorance and idiocy.


I suppose that's another of those facts you accuse some of us of not addressing.


Well, it's a fact, anyway.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 05:30 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Oralloy wrote:
The NRA's power over Congress stems not from money, but from the fact that they have legions of loyal voters who will vote for or against any politician in any election based on the NRA's say so.


That is very, very true.


That is very, very false and self-evidently so. The NRA is powerless without money


Wrong. Money has very little to do with the NRA's core power.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 05:31 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
I accept that American gun laws will not be seriously revised because Americans are obviously prepared to accept the collateral damage guns cause in the service of a higher principle.


Guns cause very little collateral damage (in the sense that you meant the term). People are just as dead if they are killed some other way.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 05:34 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Oralloy wrote:
But I should remind you that clip size has zero to do with whether a gun is an assault weapon.


Oh.. so you have been going on and on about the assault weapons ban and didn't read that legislation either?


No, I am completely familiar with assault weapons legislation.

And the size of the clip has nothing to do with whether a gun is classed as an assault weapon.



parados wrote:
You did argue that the size of the clip was a cosmetic feature


I have never argued that the size of a clip is a mere cosmetic feature.

In fact several times earlier in this thread I stated clearly that it wasn't.

At the time I was actually thinking I'd have to start figuring out a position to take and defend regarding clip size. However, it is now clear to me that any attempt to regulate clip size will definitely be tied to an unconstitutional ban on assault weapons (and likely without any severability), so I've stopped worrying about the issue.



parados wrote:
unless you want to admit that you don't know **** about what was in the legislation when the identified what was an assault weapon.


It is not in my nature to admit things that are not true.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 05:36 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Quote:
Do you know the difference between a driver's license and a car registration? The same sort of difference applies with guns.


Do you know the difference between a dog license and a driver's license?


No. I am not familiar with a dog license.

Does it have any pertinence to the fact that the Federal government does not require any license to own a full-auto weapon?



parados wrote:
By the way, my car registration comes with a license. I'll bet yours does too.


Perhaps. But there is still no license required by the federal government to own a full auto weapon.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 06:05 pm
@oralloy,
See kind of playing words games concerning needing a Fed lic or not as you do need ATF approval to own such weapons.


All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain approval from the ATF, obtain a signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) who is the county sheriff or city or town chief of police (not necessarily permission), pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and fingerprints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax. The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.[14] Many times law enforcement officers will not sign the NFA documents. There have been several unfavorable lawsuits where plaintiffs have been denied NFA approval for a transfer. These lawsuit include; Lomont v. O'Neill 2002 9th circuit, Westfall v. Miller 1996 5th circuit, and Steele v. National Firearms Branch 1985 11th circuit. In response Tennessee and Alaska have passed state laws which require the CLEO to execute the NFA documents. On October 28, 2010 in response to a writ of mandamus a Tennessee Williamson County Chancellor Robbie Beal found that the sheriff or CLEO is not required to execute NFA documents according to Tenn. Code Ann. 39-17-1361.

roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 06:33 pm
@BillRM,
That is close enough to a license to suit me.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 06:44 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
See kind of playing words games concerning needing a Fed lic or not as you do need ATF approval to own such weapons.


All NFA items must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). Private owners wishing to purchase an NFA item must obtain approval from the ATF, obtain a signature from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) who is the county sheriff or city or town chief of police (not necessarily permission), pass an extensive background check to include submitting a photograph and fingerprints, fully register the firearm, receive ATF written permission before moving the firearm across state lines, and pay a tax. The request to transfer ownership of an NFA item is made on an ATF Form 4.[14] Many times law enforcement officers will not sign the NFA documents. There have been several unfavorable lawsuits where plaintiffs have been denied NFA approval for a transfer. These lawsuit include; Lomont v. O'Neill 2002 9th circuit, Westfall v. Miller 1996 5th circuit, and Steele v. National Firearms Branch 1985 11th circuit. In response Tennessee and Alaska have passed state laws which require the CLEO to execute the NFA documents. On October 28, 2010 in response to a writ of mandamus a Tennessee Williamson County Chancellor Robbie Beal found that the sheriff or CLEO is not required to execute NFA documents according to Tenn. Code Ann. 39-17-1361.


No word games. No licensing is required to own a NFA weapon (at least by the feds).


The part in red is a little misleading.

There is an extensive approval process, as described by the part immediately after the red text. And that does include the ATF doing fingerprints and a background check. But there is no need to obtain the ATF's permission or anything like that.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 06:47 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
That is close enough to a license to suit me.


Try driving without a drivers license and telling a police officer that your car registration is close enough.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Aug, 2012 06:50 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
roger wrote:
That is close enough to a license to suit me.


Try driving without a drivers license and telling a police officer that your car registration is close enough.


For that matter, try owning a full auto in a state that requires a license for it, and telling them the gun's registration is close enough to count.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 07:05 am
@oralloy,
Sorry but it did stated that the ATF need to approve you owning such weapons and that imply that they can disapproved you owning such weapons.

I also assume they send you a letter or some such that they had approved your ownership.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Aug, 2012 07:18 am
@oralloy,
Question in such cable TV shows as gunsmoke they had shown them manufacturing new auto weapons and selling them to private individuals and it is my understanding that no such weapon manufacture after 1986 or so can be transfer to a private person.

If memory serve me correctly one show in fact build a brand new BAR type weapon and sold it to the idiot motorcycle guy Jesse James who cheated on his wife Sandra Bullock.

Seem odds given the current laws.
 

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