Yitzhak Shamir dead at 96

@Lustig Andrei,

Quote:

Once you've deleted all the garbage by JTT, it is a very short thread,

You certainly have a great disdain for the truth, Merry. Your threads are always short because you only go for uncontentious issues and when YOU do raise a contentious issue, you lack the integrity necessary to address the issues.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

Quote:
Once you've deleted all the garbage by JTT, it is a very short thread,

You certainly have a great disdain for the truth, Merry. Your threads are always short because you only go for uncontentious issues and when YOU do raise a contentious issue, you lack the integrity necessary to address the issues.

The truth, my dear JTT, has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this case. I have a great disdain for your lack of manners, common sense or common decency; I have a great disdain for your efforts tohijack and subvert every thread to your own sick purposes. This is completely unconnected to anything called "the truth", whether we're talking about your particular subjective version thereof or "truth"in general.

Your tone, your voice is so vile as to negate the importance of anything whatever that you might have to say. I find myself seething at you even on those rare occasions when I agree with your point of view. It isn't so much what you have to say as your complete inabilty to say it anything appraching a civilized manner, acceptable in an organized society where certain cultural and societal norms are supposed to prevail.

I haven't put you on"ignore" yet. But I will continue to collapse all your vile spam that spew around as though it were some pearls of wisdom. You hijack threads -- this isn't the first one -- for no other purpose than to keep running off at the mouth.

The truth? You wouldn't know what that is if it bit you inthe ass.

Please, please post your horseshit somewhere else.

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@Lustig Andrei,

I knew this would happen.

Isn't it interesting how you ignored the parts about Shamir the terrorist, Merry? Yup, you truly do have a great disdain for the truth, The truth is anathema to you.

You think it's good manners, common sense, common decency to gloss over a terrorist's/ a war criminal's sordid past.

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@Lustig Andrei,

The thing is Shamir wasn't a peacemaker at all. He believed in the supremacy of Israel and trampled over the human rights of the indiginous population. He was a torturer, he was involved in the kidnap, torture of British troops during the Mandate.

I know one shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but it's hard to find anything nice to say about this particular individual. The world is a better place without him.

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@izzythepush,

Merry's threads are no place for the truth, Izzy. If you can't toe the American propaganda line, please, please post elsewhere.

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@JTT,

They might feel differently if, instead of kidnapping, torturing and murdering British troops, the Irgun had tried their handiwork out on Americans. Oh well.

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JTT you and itzytheputz need to get a thread going of your own. You quote things from 1943 and putzhead is an anti-Semite (although he/it constantly claims that is not true, his/it's posts prove otherwise). Neither of you has any intent of contributing to this thread. Instead you have both chosen to use it as stage for more of your mutual hate fest.

The reason this thread did not move in the direction it could have can be seen in your first 4 posts. The fact that putzy showed up is no surprise, I knew it would. He/it shows up at anything anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian as well as infecting other threads with ongoing stupidity. The two of you could save time and just have one of you post.

I can see putzy having issues with Shamir from the old days, after all putzy says he/it is British and Shamir was at the top of the Lehi when the group was held responsible for the death of Lord Moyne. Moyne of course was seen by many as a bad guy regarding the Struma. (use your Google search fingers to learn more). This was all during a very grim time for Jews and many others as it was the early 1940s.
What the Lehi did was terrible. What the British did not do- helping secure safe passage for the Romanian Jews-was equally terrible. Even Churchill felt this to be the case.

After the war ended, Shamir left his underground involvement and became a vital part of the formation of The State of Israel. He had many ideas, many very good idea, some were not quite as good.

He was part of The Madrid conference peace talks. That was subsequently pushed aside and Oslo became the place to be. Oslo was less than a thrill to anyone who had standards, as Mr.Shamir did.

The positive side of Oslo was that it was more inclusive. Whereas Madrid excluded many players, in Oslo (Oslo Accords) they were involved, including Yasser 'two-note' Arafat. In the years following Oslo, things went from bad to worse for Israelis. (again, use your Google search fingers to learn more)

Shamir had character and leadership ability and did the best that he knew how and without all the slapping himself on the back behavior which so many others do.

JTT, try to stay focussed on the man who has died. You have gone to Reagan, bin Laden and others and brought up Viet Nam in your blatherings about Shamir. They are not the focus here. You have shown that you know nothing about Shamir.

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

Quote:

JTT you and itzytheputz need to get a thread going of your own.

Don't try and tell me what I need to do, Sturgis. Nobody gets a free rein to glorify war criminals. These things don't go away just because he got a free pass from the Israelis and the US. For dog's sake, the Israelis and the US are well known for hunting down war criminals throughout the world.

Had Shamir gone to court and done his time, you might have a case.

Quote:

JTT, try to stay focussed on the man who has died. You have gone to Reagan, bin Laden and others and brought up Viet Nam in your blatherings about Shamir. They are not the focus here. You have shown that you know nothing about Shamir.

When I did that, you and Merry ran, fast and far.

Reagan and all those other issues are part of the focus. You guys love to lionize the war criminals, the terrorists in your little world. I asked, how is OBL different than Shamir.

Nobody invaded a sovereign country and ex-judicially executed Shamir.

I have never seen anything that even remotely suggests that Izzy is anti-Semitic. That makes you sound like a Oralloy, Sturgis.

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@JTT,

Nobody ran anywhere you miserable schmendrick.

We stayed on topic. You brought in people and places which had nothing to do with anything.

But you and putzhead can go on believing whatever you wish to and continue debasing a true gentleman who has died and continue your rude behavior towards the gentleman who began this thread. Take a gander at his opening post. He simply indicated that Shamir had died. You immediately jumped in and started cackling about President Reagan. Now, while it is true that Shamir was P.M. during part of the Reagan Presidency, you don't indicate to us why the mention of President Reagan (other than you wanted to rip him to shreds). If you had indicated interactions between the 2 men and and signed pacts or treaties then it might have had a level of appropriateness. As it stood, your post was useless drivel.

1 Reply

@JTT,

JTT wrote:

I have never seen anything that even remotely suggests that Izzy is anti-Semitic. That makes you sound like a Oralloy, Sturgis.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I have the Cryptkeeper on ignore, but that doesn't stop him following me around like some sick puppy desperate for my attention. This is not the first time he's accused me of being anti-Semitic, he made the same accusation about a year ago, was asked by other A2K members to provide proof of my alleged anti-Semitism, and still hasn't produced any.

The Cryptkeeper is a very bitter man, and is obviously incredulous that anyone could feel sympathy for the Palestinian people, it seems he is incapable of anything but negative emotions. Only a vile racist like Sturgis could wax lyrical about a monster like Shamir, and by accusing any detractors of Israel of being anti-Semitic he is pathetically trying to shift the attention away from the brutal oppression of the Palestinian people, by the apartheid regime that is Israel.

In his twisted, hate-filled world, facts are not only Socialist, they are also anti-Semitic. I have provided links to what I have posted which are from reputable news organisations. This is from Shamir's obituary in today's Guardian.

Quote:

While most Palestinian Jews upheld a wartime ceasefire with British mandate authorities, Shamir helped found an extreme Irgun breakaway faction called Lehi. He joined its leadership troika after Lehi's chief, Avraham Stern, was killed in 1942. Shamir plotted the assassinations of Lord Moyne, British minister for Middle East affairs, in Cairo in 1944, and of the UN negotiator Count Folke Bernadotte, in Jerusalem in 1948.

He was also implicated in the bombing of the King David hotel, the British headquarters in Jerusalem, in 1946.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/01/yitzhak-shamir

Note the fact that Shamir carried out terrorism in 1944, when we were still fighting the Nazis. This obviously took resources away from the front line, and may even have prolonged the war. How many people may have survived the holocaust had Shamir not carried out such actions is something we'll never know.

The true racists are those that would deny the Palestinians their human rights, and there is a stark contrast on this thread between those who wish to eulogise Israel, and those of us who are more concerned with telling the truth.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, Izzy. (I do disagree with a couple of minor points, but that's irrelevant.) The thread wasn't started as a means to "praise the memory of a great man" but, rather, as an obsrvation of a newsworthy event. Anybody wants to say "good riddance" is welcome to do so. But there's a vast difference between that and the kind of mindless and meaningless diatribe that JTT engages in.

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@JTT,

Your comments about President Reagan just makes me want to eat a handful of jelly beans and cogitate about how much he made Americans feel good about the United States of America. That was before the internet being omnipresent, and foreigners being empowered to make pejorative statements about the United States of America. [Foofie thinks a good penance for JTT's non complimentary comments about the USA would be to say, "The United States of America" 50 times while saluting the American flag.]

1 Reply

@Lustig Andrei,

Lustig Andrei wrote:

De mortuis nihil nisi obstat.

Why, though? Let's remember the dead for what they did, both the good and bad, while they were alive.

All of what Shamir did was to advance the ends of the State of Israel at the expense of the human rights of the Palestinians.

I find it hard to believe that you'd apply that maxim to the memory of, say, Ossama bin Laden, for example.

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@InfraBlue,

Let's not forget the sort of organisation Shamir was a member of.

Quote:

During World War II, Lehi initially sought alliance with Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, offering to fight alongside them against the British.On the belief that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis. During World War II it initially supported fascism, declaring that it would establish a Jewish state based upon "nationalist and totalitarian principles".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

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@Lustig Andrei,

Merry: I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said, Izzy. Except this; I don't want to be known as one of those who are concerned with telling the truth.

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@Foofie,

I know, Foofie, you don't have to remind anyone that you relish the fact that Reagan and other US presidents have operated in a fashion similar to the Nazis. They have been responsible for at least as many deaths, in at least as needless a fashion.

Maybe a contest is in order. Americans could suggest new ways for their governments to slaughter innocents and steal their wealth.

Quote:

President Reagan just makes me want to eat a handful of jelly beans and cogitate about how much he made Americans feel good about the United States of America.

Again, it's noted that people being slaughtered by your governments is a dandy way to make Americans feel good about themselves.

Don't choke on those jellybeans, Foofie.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Quote:

I find it hard to believe that you'd apply that maxim to the memory of, say, Ossama bin Laden, for example.

That's been asked, Infra. Guess what? No reply from Merry or Sturgis.

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@izzythepush,

Absolutely. I highly recommend J. Bowyer Bell's book Terror Out of Zion, The Fight for Israeli Independence. It's a sober narrative about the Zionist terrorist organizations that, Bell argues, eventually forced the British to give up their Palestine Mandate to the UN through the terrorism they perpetrated in Palestine and throughout the world. Some of the leaders of these terrorist organizations went on to become elected officials in Israel's goverenment, like Menachem Begin who lead the Irgun, and Shamir himself who lead Lehi.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter. How 'bout that wascally terrorist George Washington? Bet you he was viewed rather dimly (as a terrorist) in Brit gov't circles in the late 1700s.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Lustig Andrei wrote:

De mortuis nihil nisi obstat.

Why, though? Let's remember the dead for what they did, both the good and bad, while they were alive.

All of what Shamir did was to advance the ends of the State of Israel at the expense of the human rights of the Palestinians.

I find it hard to believe that you'd apply that maxim to the memory of, say, Ossama bin Laden, for example.

Yeah, you're mostly right, Infra. The comment was addressed to the over-the-top postings of JTT. No reason why not speak ill off the dead in a civilized manner. Bin Laden isn't the only one whose memory I can cheerfully curse. Take Strom Thurmond, say. . .

1 Reply

Yitzhak Shamir dead at 96

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