What is your most hated profession?

Nope, I'm not reversing my statement, sorry.

Of the hundreds of lawyers I attended school with, practiced with and even faced in court as adversaries, I can count on one hand the ones who were unethical.

Nasty, sure. The practice of law on Long Island practically guaranteed that your adversary would not be a nice person. But unethical? There were a few, sure, and we all knew who they were. But most were not in ethical breach.

Message to Jespah! I don't know how to send personal messages, which this may very well belong. I'm not sure. One thing I am sure of is the fact we all have to stop defending our own profession and look at what it does for and against society. By the way, your Boxer is adorable! I have a quickly growing Boxer pup myself. Beautiful dog!!

Jespah, I don't mean to insult anyone who works hard to earn their way in life. I am assuming you are a lawyer? Please, do not take my statements personally. It was never intended that way.

I am aware of how hard anyone has to work to get through law school. You have to be so determined and self disciplined to get through it all. You wonder how many hoops you have to jump. The job you get after it all, is difficult also.

I know how hard you worked. I worked very hard too to be a RN. My school loved failing everyone out. I had to be robotic, showing absolutely no emotion with a ton of criticism. Nothing is ever good enough. You have to calmly thank them for the constructive criticism, which is completely undeserved, but open your mouth and you fail out of school, no matter what they do to you. It was very difficult. It was the absolute truth of the profession, unfortunately. I thought I was going to help people. That was a right and wrong assumption.

I was not knowledgeable enough to do my job right out of school. It took two years, as all nurses will tell you, before you learn enough about the field. I seriously doubt any lawyer out of school is any different than I was. You do learn through working the harsh realilties. Although different fields of employment, I believe we have similarities. We both took a beating to have the jobs that we do. I know for a fact that I did!

You may identify with this or may not, but I'm going to hit you with it anyway. I know who I was before I was a nurse. I also know what the profession made me. What people don't understand, I represent my employer, not the patient. Nurses seem so friendly and kind. Most aren't. They are cold and hardened by seeing so much human suffering that somewhere along the line they got lost. It's very easy to. You will never see this in their behavior. They know how to say and do all the right things to make you think otherwise by observation. So do I.

There was one case that shocked me into what I had become, on the job, and many times off. It was a man, who in my opinion was going to die. I worked in a PT hospital inpatient. I followed my job to the letter. He was under medical observation with a doctor seeing him every day writing orders.

Absolutely everything was under correct protocol, but I still had the feeling that this man was going to die, but gave the same old speech when questioned by family, which was exactly what my employer would expect of me.

It wasn't until I drove home thinking about my evening at work. I had just done something I swore to myself that I would never turn into. I didn't tell them my gut feeling or give options, which could risk my job and would, in all reality. Don't people deserve better than this?

The man did die, just as my gut told me he would. He should have never been in a rehab, just as my gut told me through medical experience. Our hospital was licensed for acute care. We did not have the resources of an acute care hospital. Everything completely legal and what is expected of me. Patients with more serious illness are more profitable. I know this and calmed a family's fears with my words of medical supervision, daily doctor visits, adequate testing, all of which were true. What I left out is a gut feeling, which means nothing. I am not at liberty to discuss this and it is completely unprofessional.

Talk about being scared straight! This one patient and my actions, when my gut told me something completely different, changed my way of dealing with problems such as this. I learned very careful phrasing when talking to family when I felt a patient was of high risk. Anyone could write my words and find nothing. "It is up to the family what you feel comfortable with. Do you understand?" My stare will never be noted, but makes people think and prompts questions, which I am obligated to answer.

This is exactly what I wanted, people to question me when I felt there was a need. They did, because I didn't stop looking them in the eye asking if they understood. I never allowed them to ignore my stare or my words when I felt a paitient was at risk. My patients stopped dying only because I found a better way of communication, the physical one that no lawyer could ever dispute.

The moral to my story, you can get so caught up in the terms of your work, that you forget who you were before you entered this profession. Medical as well as legal makes decisions that profoundly affect another. My profession is not squeaky clean either. I found a way to do the right thing. It is tragic that a man lost his life because I did my job to the letter.

Unfortunately, the innocent do need legal representation at times. I did. I have talked to attornies abuout possible divorce and stated my terms. I have been denyed by many who said that I could turn around and sue them for not financial rape of my husband. Wow! I am not impaired in any way. I was refused my wishes and chose not to divorce my husband during separation over this problem.

I also needed representation over theft of my belongings because of a man that abused the law. It took a year for me to get my things back, but not all were returned or in the condition in which they were left. He destroyed a lot and deserves criminal charges. He abused the law, just as his defending attorney did. It took a year. I have to question why any attorney would defend a thief in a civil matter when obviously guilty of felony theft. I guess that I should press charges, but this is a scary enemy and I don't wish to find myself dead in some parking lot.

My message to you is don't get caught up in the game of any profession. None are all so honest, but I can be. Never overlook the ills done by anyone with power over another as part of the job. People count on you as they do me to do the right thing. I am shamed and to this day feel guilt that I didn't learn sooner, but that is not what or profession demands out of us. Money is what they all want, good or bad.

No profession is all good or all bad. Notice the bad and don't deny it. I don't. Do you honestly think I'm going to say the medical profession is all good? Not in a zillion years. I have seen a bit too much. I also know what it has made me, hardened and insensitive to things that I see as trivial compared to the suffering I have dealt with.

Do not make the mistake of trivializing the ills of the legal profession, just as I do with my own. There are huge problems with both, not just lawyers. Don't ignore the ill to society that many have done which you may or may not be innocent of. You evaluate yourself and the profession, just as I did. It isn't an easy task.

Jes, I hope you understand something of what I am trying to tell you.

Hmmm, not quite getting you here. Could you elaborate on that?

Absolutely, I will elaborate. I have to know what specific questions you wish to be answered. Ask!!!

A few words to lighten a subject doesn't mean said subject was taken lightly. I was only kidding. :wink:

My point behind lengthy words that would put anyone to sleep, is we can get so caught up in the time and effort our profession requires, that we may do our job to the letter of perfection. I believe there is good and bad in everyone and every profession, including my own.

I did not mean to personally insult anyone who may work in any profession. It did take a jolt for me to see the many things that are not right towards others. I see plenty of room to criticize my own profession, after taking a deep look. Unfortunately, that took me several years to see it. I assumed that guidelines of the profession were correct, when I suddenly saw the flaws.

I have to assume Jes is an attorney and probably a decent person who does want to do right by others and probably does. This went way off topic. I am only suggesting to Jes (who has an adorable dog!) to look deeper, as I did.

We do have a very flawed system, but it is the best one in the world. I believe we should strive for perfection of the many flaws we see. I also feel that we should never be complacent and accept what is handed to us. There is something better, but we all have to work for it.

I found a way to stay within the rules of my profession and employer, yet still do what I feel is the right thing by society. It may sound minor, but not to the people I have helped.

I hate golf course marshalls. They always show up and yell at you to hurry up, no matter that they haven't cut the rough in three weeks and the woods are full of underbrush and poison ivy they should have cleared. It's like, hey buddy, these balls cost $3/each and I'm not having the best day, OK? Not to mention the fact the reason you are a hole behind is because the group in front of you fell a hole behind then skipped a hole to catch up and avoid the manic marshall. Argh.

The argument that we only hate the other guy's lawyer is short sighted. If we really study the events in our country, we find that most of the mischeif has been done by lawyers.

Take for example, Senator Edwards. The only reason that he is on a stump running for president is because he made atrocious sums as an ambulance chaser.

PI lawyers live on the misery of others. Edwards was able to convince some jurors to award a huge sum for pain and suffering to a young girl who was horribly injured in a swimming pool.

The girl should have gotten the money.

But should Edwards have made over Seven Million Dollars for one case???????????

The rapacity of Ambulance Chasers is legend.

We won't get to a good legal system in this country which lowers rising health costs until the legislators( who are mainly also lawyers) declare a cap on pain and suffering awards throughout the country.


Wildflower 63 is quite correct.

Notice that our resident used car salesman hasn't made an appearance on this thread...

bocdaver: Interesting comments. My only question to you is: what do you think of Richard Posner?

A lot of wrong impressions can be got from the news, especially on television. Attorneys who, say, do pro bono work for women's shelters don't crack the headlines. Are some lawyers a-holes? Of course. It's a profession. There's money and prestige to be had there. I've met plenty of a-hole doctors, too.

Anywho, my most hated profession: whoever it is that's responsible for the content on the cable news networks these days. What the hell is going on there? "Benifer," for the love of God...

I thank you Bocdaver for your understanding. We have to stand up for what is right, not what is socially popular. We all should know right from wrong. This is something that never sways with the wind, but social acceptance is. Members, don't mistake this!

I am an attorney in the sense that I have a JD, I'm admitted to the NY Bar and I've practiced. But I'm retired from the practice of law. Currently I'm in school for Oracle DBA.

By the way, it's a Boston Terrier and it's not my dog, just a picture I found on the Internet. I don't currently have a dog; I just liked the picture. So, I guess, thanks for agreeing with my taste in doggie photos.

Oh, I think I understand what you mean (forgive me, but I'm pressed for time and can't read every word like I'd like to). I know what you mean about the idea of covering up the profession but the fact is, I'm not. I could care less what most of the people I was an adversary against or even practiced with are doing now or what you (or the general public) thinks of them as people. But the bottom line is and was, they aren't and weren't in ethical breach. It just isn't as common as you seem to be alluding to.

It isn't like most of us (yeah, there are some, but as you have acknowledged, that happens in all other professions) wake up one day and say, "Hey, I know what I'm going to do with my life! I'll become a lawyer so I can screw people over!" No, many of us are or were lawyers because of a feeling of wanting to help people, or wanting to study a challenging topic or perhaps because we have a feeling for arcane information. Are some horrible people lawyers? Of course. I've never denied that. But to say that lawyers have a monopoly on unethical behavior is simply not true.

PS There are also - gasp! - unethical IT workers, donut bakers, hairdressers, swimming instructors, dog trainers, etc. No profession is immune from ethical irregularities.

There is a big difference between acknowledging the ills of a profession and indicting (perhaps an unfortunate word choice) the majority of the people in that profession. You've dealt with some bad attorneys. Bummer. You've dealt with a defense attorney: some are good, some are bad, but it is a necessary function in our judicial system. Would you prefer that the accused had no recourse to legal counsel?

Have you ever been to a legal aid clinic? Talked to a landlord-tenant lawyer? (Most of them represent tenants, you know.) A probate lawyer? The JDs who work at Child Support Services or Child Protective Services?

Edwards is not the only one who has gotten rich manipulating the juries in this country. When one visits the courts, one can find a great many slimy characters with shiny suits, bad toupees and beat up briefcases attempting to con people into allowing them to represent victims of auto accidents.

That is why they call them ambulance chasers. They, like vultures, live off of the carnage of the urban jungle.

I have many friends who are nurses, some are nurse practicioners. Listening to anecdotes from them for years, living in some of the same medical world (I used to be a medical technologist) and having good friends who were mds, male and female, and now still are thirty years later, hearing their points of view, I don't just automatically agree with all of what you say, not that I completely understand it - re stareing patient's relatives into making decisions. Hmmm? and Hmmm?

I think you stared your point of view but am very unclear on what exactly that was? The patient was dying and the doctor didn't give a hint to the family? Or the doctor, he or she, did and the patient didn't die? Do you have any clue of the complexity of medical efforts to help people under trying circumstances?

I sense that you might be putting yourself in the forefront of things you don't fully understand.

I am not saying that vile things can't happen in the medical world. What you are accusing anyone of, what you are saving anyone of or communicating by your stares, I cannot guess.

I know you are very angry and sympathize with that, not that you want to hear that since I question what you are saying.

Quote: "I think you stared your point of view but am very unclear on what exactly that was? The patient was dying and the doctor didn't give a hint to the family? Or the doctor, he or she, did and the patient didn't die? Do you have any clue of the complexity of medical efforts to help people under trying circumstances?"

That one is a very long story. This took time. A big part of the problem is a financial battle between several professions. Doctors aren't always allowed to make the rules, which is wrong. They are medical experts, not any other profession who dictates. Nothing they can do about it singularly. The problem, as I saw it, no one even tried, not even me. We all did our jobs to the letter of profession standard and the law. If you really want a more descriptive picture of what I am talking about, ship me a PM.

Jes, I understand exactly what you are saying. My own profession concerns me. I see problems that impact society in a bad way. We both went into our profession with the idea of doing good, as I thought you did as well. Sometimes the reality is disturbing. It's always about money, not right or wrong. Sometimes you have to be a little creative to make sure the right thing happens. I know that I have had to be. I left one hospital over this problem, which I couldn't stomach anymore and went to other areas of nursing where I felt that my efforts could result in something right by the individual, not profitability.

Oh, that is a Boston Bull!! Boxer pups look very similar to that pic. I have a very challenging Boxer pup. I adore her so much, but I am an animal freak!! I have to say that a Boston Terrier is a great choice if you ever want a great small dog. My grandma owned two of them. She was in her 70's when she bought her last dog, a Boston Bull. She was afraid to get another dog because of her age. Sadly, she lost her wonderful Boston Terrier and misses this wonderful breed so much. She is now 90 and refuses the one thing that would really make her happy, a dog. She doesn't want her beloved dog to outlive her. If you ever find yourself in the market for a great dog, you hit on a fantastic breed! A Boston Bull is an irresistible dog.

Yeah, we've thought about getting another dog. Right now, circumstances don't permit, but eventually .... :-D

I understand! Dogs are about like having a kid, only they don't use the toilet except for drinking out of. They can be so gross! Keep that Boston Bull in mind. They are really great dogs! When the day comes, you will be convinced that this dog is a family member, not a pet. You will adore a Boston!

Yup dogs can be gross. Never even heard the word coprophagia before my parents got a dog.