"Austerity" now a dirty word in Europe

@Finn dAbuzz,

Red States Feed at Federal Trough, Blue States Supply the Feed

Tell me again how it's Liberals who expect their government to pay for their way of life?

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That Finn, he's a barrel of laughs . . .

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Pretty funny that you can't see that the current Austerity is far more destructive to these societies than the alternative.

It is producing very little in real budget savings, it isn't protecting their bond ratings, and it causes unemployment to spike - big-time. That's a massive and immediate problem for these societies, one that austerity provides no solution for whatsoever - and one that the proponents of austerity don't want to discuss.

Cycloptichorn

What exactly is the "alternative" to the current "austerity" to which you refer. In the case of Italy and to a lesser extent Spain the alternative appears to be a sharp rise in the cost of the borrowing their governments need to fund current operations - even more if the "stimulus" government spending you imply is needed is done. This could quickly lead Italy, which already has very high debt levels relative to GDP, to a crisis like that of Greece. Who will bail them out? Both countries are plagued with high current deficits and structural features designed to promote "job security" (for those lucky or well-connected enough to have one) , but which directly create chronic high unemployment among the young and which inhibit business investment and flexibility. Worse for them their high government borrowing is weakening their banks which are coerced into buying government bonds at artificially low rates, thereby exporting the problem throughout their economies.

My impression is that the "austerity" to which you and others are referring is a combination of the effects of slightly reduced government spending and the economic reversals that hit Europe (and the world) in 2008. Clearly the correction for that should first address the elements of their governance and economies that most inhibit the creation of much needed new economic activity. Unfortunately much of what is commonly referred to as "stimulus" bu its advocates involves only increased government spending (and borrowing) and the preservation of precisely the regulatory structures that are inhibiting economic growth. That is not a formula for success.

In both countries sclerotic, overregulated labor markets are inhibiting business investment while government borrowing is inhibiting capital formation. That's a pretty good formula for limiting any prospect for economic growth.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

What exactly is the "alternative" to the current "austerity" to which you refer.

All these countries need to learn is that invading other sovereign nations is great for domestic industry. Additionally, it allows said country the opportunity to steal the wealth from the country they invade.

The honest make your own way ideal is so old hat. Why do that when there is so much wealth just sitting out there asking to be taken.

I'm surprised that a guy like you, Gob, hasn't advanced this well known form of enrichment.

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@georgeob1,

There is no alternative, period! Sure they're talking about growth now and boosting the economy - with what I ask? Greece hasn't got two Euros left to boost their economy, never mind that Greece, for the third time, wasn't able to form a government. Spain and Italy cannot partake in any economical growth either - if you don't have the monetary means to spurt the economy,
I wonder what the outcome of the EU summit about the "growth pact" will
be.

In theory and on paper it will look good, certainly, but reality paints a different picture as we have already seen in the past years.

I don't foresee Greece to be part of the EU much longer since everything that was implemented has failed terribly. Greece has dealt with a corrupt government for too many years and it will take decades to recuperate from
the fiscal disaster their greedy, corrupt government has created.

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@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

I don't foresee Greece to be part of the EU much longer since everything that was implemented has failed terribly.

Do you mean theat? Or do you mean the Eurozone?

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
I don't foresee Greece to be part of the EU much longer since everything that was implemented has failed terribly.

Do you mean theat? Or do you mean the Eurozone?

Hate to admit it, but I'm not sure I understand the difference.

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@Lustig Andrei,

Source

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@Walter Hinteler,

Thank you, Walter.

But what, exactly, distinguishes Eurozone members from the rest of the EU nations?

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LA, the Eurozone is the group of nations who use the Euro as a currency, which is not necessarily every nation in the EU.

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@Setanta,

Got it. Thnx.

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@izzythepush,

I had meant Greece in particular, not the complete EU (Eurozone et al). Greece's bailout, all the sanctions and measures implemented to help Greece have failed, not to mention their own domestic political turmoil just to form a decent government body. Short from stepping in and taking over, what other solution would there be for Greece than to leave the EU and go back to their own currency ?

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@Lustig Andrei,

Basically I can see Greece dropping out of the Euro and reverting to the drachma, but I can't see them leaving the EU.

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On the second leg of my journey home from London.

There are many reasons why I enjoy these trips, but one is that I get to hear the opinions of actual Brits who are not A2K members.

One might think that the folks I spend time with in London are conservative simply because they value business and money, but that's not the case. I'm always surprised, actually, by how liberal so many are. Of course they tend to be a lot younger than me, and are either not married yet or have no children.

Political correctness has surely run amok in Europe and the UK, and so often opinions are delivered with the caveat, "I know we're supposed to..."

Like the cabbie who asked me if I minded if he stopped for petrol on the way to taking me to Heathrow. Apparently all of the gas stations around the airport dispense only bio-fuel, and he hates using the stuff in his cab, because his vehicle runs poorly on it. "I know we're supposed to..." he led off with before explaining how his cab doesn't run right with it.

Or the fellow in the pub who explained he can't fly the Union Jack because it's perceived to be offensive to "others."

"I know we're supposed to make these people feel welcome, but I can't see how flying our own flag is a problem."

Obviously I don't either.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

One might think that the folks I spend time with in London are conservative simply because they value business and money, but that's not the case. I'm always surprised, actually, by how liberal so many are.

Since you're not the first time in the UK (and Europe), I'd thought you know that the Conservatives here are more 'liberal' than the Democrats in the USA.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

"I know we're supposed to make these people feel welcome, but I can't see how flying our own flag is a problem."

Obviously I don't either.

Obviously, you have no idea.

Flying the national flag privately was often considered to show a right-wing nationalistic opinion (in the UK = to be a supporter of the BNP). And it was.
That only changed from the Football World Championship a couple of years onwards ...

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Like the cabbie who asked me if I minded if he stopped for petrol on the way to taking me to Heathrow. Apparently all of the gas stations around the airport dispense only bio-fuel, and he hates using the stuff in his cab, because his vehicle runs poorly on it. "I know we're supposed to..." he led off with before explaining how his cab doesn't run right with it.

Well, obviously you got the wrong impression - you could even check the "normal" fuel and diesel prices of those stations online. (Just looked it up myself - not giving my 'biased' own experiences.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

We're not a nation of flag wavers anyway, sporting and royal occasions aside, and are quite distrusful of those that do.

In my expewrience anyone who insists on flying the flag all year round, or moans that he can't, is a fascist **** anyway.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Like the cabbie who asked me if I minded if he stopped for petrol on the way to taking me to Heathrow. Apparently all of the gas stations around the airport dispense only bio-fuel, and he hates using the stuff in his cab, because his vehicle runs poorly on it. "I know we're supposed to..." he led off with before explaining how his cab doesn't run right with it.

Or the cabbie who told his American fare a load of old bollocks about bio fuel, so he could go all round the houses and charge him double.

Petrol stations don't sell bio fuel on its own, its blended with fossil fuel, regardless of where they are.

They're very good at spotting people with more money than sense, and you were taken for a ride. Thanks for giving me such a good laugh.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

In my expewrience anyone who insists on flying the flag all year round, or moans that he can't, is a fascist **** anyway.

I would have thought so, too. Until I've seen the flags since since the world championship ...

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Petrol stations don't sell bio fuel on its own, its blended with fossil fuel, regardless of where they are.

Well, that's the very same elsewhere in Europe. (And I truly doubt that a station could survive just with one pump.)

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"Austerity" now a dirty word in Europe

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