89
   

Why does the Universe exist?

 
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Thu 28 Jan, 2016 01:34 pm
@mark noble,
Of course Mark it's all I have to work with. However it's been pretty reliable so far
mark noble
 
  1  
Thu 28 Jan, 2016 02:16 pm
@dalehileman,
It would have to be, Dale - You're still here.
So are 7.33 billion others, with alternate worldviews, though.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Thu 28 Jan, 2016 02:21 pm
@mark noble,
Quote:
It would have to be, Dale - You're still here
Well thank you Mark
I guess

Quote:
So are 7.33 billion others
Though apparently the vast majority --and that of all those billions (trillions?) preceding-- don't work out very well when they sacrifice themselves to some supposed cause 'rother
mark noble
 
  1  
Fri 29 Jan, 2016 06:30 am
@dalehileman,
Trillions - Historically, never existed.
Not done the math, but pre-1900 global mortality was about 40 yrs . Deduce by generational-(20yr) Incline over 10k yrs and 80-120 billion ppl have existed. Trillion is 1k billion - ppl existed in smaller numbers prior and won't add much to this.
Likely panspermic introduction about 130-235 thousand yrs ago.

Groups fare well until pop exceeds 150, then tend to schism, via alternate idealism.

When times are tough, individuals tend to form a group mentailty - When abundance prevails they become more selfish
Primarily, self-preservation (when key) is better achieved via communal-attachment - Once self-pres is stabilised - self-relevance kicks back in.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 29 Jan, 2016 08:43 am
@mark noble,
Quote:
Once self-pres is stabilised - self-relevance kicks back in.
Just curious. What do you think self-relevance is and how is it achieved?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Fri 29 Jan, 2016 11:26 am
@mark noble,
Quote:
Trillions - Historically, never existed
Thanks Mark for doing the math. I'd still guess however that the vast majority entertained habits and attitudes that shortened their lives, even with communal attachment of one kind or another
Amoh5
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 12:35 am
@TuringEquivalent,
I think the universe exists because it has always existed, it is obviously infinite. SCIENCE SAYS energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed or converted to something else. SPIRITUALITY SAYS God Heavenly Father and Goddess Mother Earth are both immortal. Heavenly Father gives us air to breathe and water to drink. Mother Earth gives us food(plants) and warmth(fire and electricity) We are only representatives of these two immortal entities. All females represent the earth and all males represent the sky. Males cannot exist without females or vice-versa.
Someone was saying that we behave almost like atoms, where the negative charges are males and positive charges are females etc etc. I think we ask ourselves these universe questions because we know we are not gonna always be here in our present form, we will convert or die into something else to allow new life to take our places. Yes, I am a Christian, but not a bible literalist, only a bible moralist.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 07:49 am
@Amoh5,
"Always existed" does not equate infinite any more the an ant looping around a ring makes the ring infinite. That said I agree time is of no first order reality which in turn implies the Universe just IS period. There is no alternative to whatever is true as Parmenides himself would explain. The question on "why something rather then nothing" is tricky and implies there could be an alternative, but understanding the concept of nothingness out of its mundane use quickly show us how the topic is fruitless.
dalehileman
 
  2  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 11:57 am
@Amoh5,
Quote:
it is obviously infinite
Quite to the contrary, Amoh. Of course "infinite" is easier to entertain in Mind's Eye, but it entails a distressing element of chance. Assuming the rules are forever fixed, if there's the slightest chance of anything happening, then in the Forever Universe it will happen in infinite number of times. Thus the entire Universe in every detail, including your reading this posting, has already happened, is presently happening, and will happen again an infinite number of times. Also another version the same as this one in every detail but differing by a single iota. Maybe you inadvertently skipped the period at the end of a sentence

Some a2k'ers defend this sort of infinity but still intuition objects vigorously

Of course even if it's finite, the same sort of objection arises though at a much slower rate. I'd like to hear from anybody who's knowledgeable in the math sense
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 12:47 pm
@dalehileman,
Good post !
dalehileman
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 01:20 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Why, thanks Fil
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 03:54 pm
@dalehileman,
Because its short n reflects my thoughts in a succinct way.
0 Replies
 
Amoh5
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 04:48 pm
@dalehileman,
Science says energy cannot be destroyed nor created, only transformed or converted into something else, hence infinity. I think people get confused with transform meaning death being nothing. Death is only a transformation or a re-generation which is evident with life on earth. Nothing plus nothing equals nothing, 0+0=0
Amoh5
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 04:55 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Nothing plus nothing equals nothing, 0+0=0
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 04:58 pm
@Amoh5,
How about the use of nuclear weapons?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Sun 31 Jan, 2016 05:33 pm
@Amoh5,
Quote:
.... energy cannot be destroyed nor created, only transformed or converted... hence infinity
No offense Amoh but I fail to see the logic here
Amoh5
 
  1  
Mon 1 Feb, 2016 03:11 am
@dalehileman,
It's not my logic, it comes from current science called "The laws of conservation of energy"
0 Replies
 
Amoh5
 
  1  
Mon 1 Feb, 2016 03:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
Nuclear energy from nuclear weapons convert to thermo, electromagnetic and kinetic energy...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Mon 1 Feb, 2016 08:36 am
@Amoh5,
Are you familiar with a Rubick's cube ? And with quantized space at plank scale ? Well the number of possible combinations of matter is far from infinite. Unless space would keep expanding forever...But far in the future with Stars dead and galaxies gonne there is only energy around...Space will stop expanding. From the quantum foam virtual particles can emerge and eventually given enough time statistics alone might trigger, maybe, a new big bang like event somwhere...a huge Rubick cube will only repeat all possible combinations not ad new ones to the "game" ! That IS not infinity !
Amoh5
 
  1  
Mon 1 Feb, 2016 09:52 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Do you have any notion of Mother earth and Father sky? He gives us air and water, she gives us food(plants) and warmth(fire and electricity) I think they're immortal and they are the universe, such a vast place I would think.
0 Replies
 
 

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