45
   

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2012 04:46 pm
@firefly,
Sorry deal there is no question in my mind that those charges on his wife are going to be use by the state as a tool to try to force a plea deal of some kind out of Zimmerman so they can save face.

Not an uncommon means of forcing a plea deal out of one member of a couple and once more we have a let make a deal justice system.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2012 05:01 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sorry deal there is no question in my mind that those charges on his wife are going to be use by the state as a tool to try to force a plea deal of some kind out of Zimmerman so they can save face.

Not an uncommon means of forcing a plea deal out of one member of a couple and once more we have a let make a deal justice system.


Bill...are you suggesting that there is no reason to suspect she committed perjury?

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2012 05:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Bill...are you suggesting that there is no reason to suspect she committed perjury?


Beside the point as the charges will be use as a tool to try to force Zimmerman to take a plea deal over Trayvon death in my opinion and if the state was not thinking in that direction they would not had been in a hurry to charge her.

Her actions have no connections to the self defense issues that night concerning her husband and yet there is little very very little question that the state will cheerfully be willing to drop the charges against her if only Zimmerman will roll over on the shooting charges.

Perhaps you do not have a moral problem with this force deal making but I surely do.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2012 05:55 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5012558)
Quote:
Bill...are you suggesting that there is no reason to suspect she committed perjury?



Beside the point as the charges will be use as a tool to try to force Zimmerman to take a plea deal over Trayvon death in my opinion and if the state was not thinking in that direction they would not had been in a hurry to charge her.

Her actions have no connections to the self defense issues that night concerning her husband and yet there is little very very little question that the state will cheerfully be willing to drop the charges against her if only Zimmerman will roll over on the shooting charges.

Perhaps you do not have a moral problem with this force deal making but I surely do.


Does this mean you are not going to answer my question?
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2012 06:31 pm
@BillRM,
I don't think those charges are going to enter his domain, billy.

she's gonna do some time for her inappropriate actions. just like he is...
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2012 09:32 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Sorry deal there is no question in my mind that those charges on his wife are going to be use by the state as a tool to try to force a plea deal of some kind out of Zimmerman so they can save face.

Her lying, and his sitting there, "like a potted palm", and allowing her to intentionally mislead the court, was a gift to the prosecution. Zimmerman just destroyed his own credibility, in a case where his defense hinges on his credibility.

The state has no reason to "force a plea deal" out of Zimmerman--all things considered they are better off letting this case run it's legal course. And the defense certainly shouldn't even seek or accept a plea agreement before an immunity hearing--the charges might be dismissed as a result of that hearing--and that hearing is still a long way off. So what you are saying really doesn't make sense, or even conform to the legal realities of this situation.

Shellie Zimmerman's perjury charge has no connection to the criminal charges against her husband. What she did was egregious. She flat out lied to a judge, and the state has rather substantial evidence to support that. There was no reason, at all, to delay arresting her for perjury. And the matter had to be dealt with before Zimmerman's next bail hearing--at which time I am sure the judge will expect both an explanation and an apology for the lies that Zimmerman allowed at his last bond hearing.

You seem to have no moral problems with people deliberately lying, under oath, to a judge.

She'll have to deal with whatever punishment she gets for her perjury. It won't affect her husband's criminal case at all--except the lies, which he was a part of, have damaged his credibility as well.


0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 12 Jun, 2012 11:36 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
It look like they are going to try to force Zimmerman to take a plea deal by charging his wife.
firefly wrote:
No, it simply looks like she is being charged with perjury because she lied, under oath, when testifying to the judge.

Aren't you the one who carries on that people should be charged with a crime when they give false testimony?
Well, that's what they are doing to Mrs Zimmerman. I'd think you'd be happy they are enforcing the perjury laws.

It's generally not a good idea to lie, under oath, when you are giving testimony to a judge.


It makes the judge very angry.
If that were true,
then trial judges wud NEVER have any mental peace.
It is a little conspicuous when the litigants stand in front of u
and testify to radically different patterns of fact.
Judges r less naive than what u imply.

Judges can allow their emotions to affect their rulings,
but that is unprofessional n inconsistent with proper judicial demeanor.
An emotional judge is like a dirty-handed surgeon.

Judges r duty-bound to be dispassionate analysts.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 04:22 am
@Rockhead,
Quote:
she's gonna do some time for her inappropriate actions. just like he is...


Love to find out it the state is in the habit of bringing such charges as they had level against Zimmerman's wife for similar court room misdeeds. Somehow I doubt that they would or had done so in the past as a general rule,

Sorry but the reason they charging her, in my opinion, is to get a tool to try to force him to bargain because the facts are supporting Zimmerman 100 percents that he had acted in legal self defense that night.

Somehow holding a legal "gun" at a person you care about head in order to try to force you to plea to a crime you are not guilty of is morally wrong.

The state only care about "winning" not about guilt or innocence of the person charge.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:22 am
@BillRM,
Quote:

Love to find out it the state is in the habit of bringing such charges as they had level against Zimmerman's wife for similar court room misdeeds. Somehow I doubt that they would or had done so in the past as a general rule,

You live in the state of Florida and you are unaware of whether or not the state generally charges people with perjury for blatantly and intentionally giving false testimony to a judge at a hearing? That's a rather serious perjury--perjury at an official proceeding--and it can be charged as a felony in the third degree. And, as long as the state has at least two sources of evidence to support the fact that the testimony was perjured, they most certainly do charge and prosecute--and, in the case of Shellie Zimmerman, they have evidence beyond two sources.

Your denial of reality simply makes you sound like a jerk.



Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:25 am
OmsigDavid is correct, firefly, the judge in this case probably did not get angry.
Soccer referees don't get angry; they see a foul, blow their whistle, stop the game and assess the proper penalty.

So it is with judges.

Criminals are not afraid nor are they moved by the emotions of their victims; they do not care if there is anger heading at them, but what they do not like at all is seeing the oncoming rush of cold, hard justice.

I bet Zimmerman isn't sleeping so good.

Joe(That's okay by me.)Nation
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:25 am
@firefly,
I think it likely that defendents routinely lie to judges about their ability to pay bail and I think they generally just get their hands slapped. I think the issue here is more about the profile of the case rather than the court trying to pressure the defendant but I still agree that it is really unusual for charges to be brought for such run of the mill perjury.
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:36 am
@engineer,
Engineer, I guarantee you that it is not the case that defendants lie to judges regarding their financials at a bail hearing.

Not ever in my experience and most certainly not in a case of murder.

The sad thing here is IF the Zimmerman's had testified truthfully, the judge would still have issued a bail within their financial reach.

Joe(duh)Nation

0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:40 am
@engineer,
It's one thing to fudge the truth a little.

It's something else to bald-faced lie to the judge, saying "I'm destitute" when you have a hundred grand in the bank, though.

parados
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 08:54 am
@DrewDad,
Not only do you have $100 grand but you just transferred the money from one account to another.

If the money was in a pay pal account they could argue they weren't aware how much had come in but when they transfer it from George's account to her account and then tell the judge they have no money it looks like they were purposely hiding the money as well as lying about it.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 09:32 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

OmsigDavid is correct, firefly, the judge in this case probably did not get angry.
Soccer referees don't get angry; they see a foul, blow their whistle, stop the game and assess the proper penalty.

So it is with judges.

Criminals are not afraid nor are they moved by the emotions of their victims; they do not care if there is anger heading at them, but what they do not like at all is seeing the oncoming rush of cold, hard justice.

I bet Zimmerman isn't sleeping so good.

Joe(That's okay by me.)Nation
According to what incarcerated felons
have said in prison interviews,
what thay r really afraid of is ARMED, AGGRESSIVE RESISTANCE by their victims!
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 09:38 am

"Amendment 8 - US Constitution
Cruel and Unusual Punishment. Ratified 12/15/1791.

Excessive bail shall not be required,
nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 09:40 am
None of which were applied in this case.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 10:25 am
@parados,
Quote:
If the money was in a pay pal account they could argue they weren't aware how much had come in but when they transfer it from George's account to her account and then tell the judge they have no money it looks like they were purposely hiding the money as well as lying about it.

They also omitted the truth about their possession of a second passport for George Zimmerman.

Lying about assets, as well as a second passport, does raise issues regarding flight risk--something that very much affects a judge's decision regarding bail.

There is no question that Shellie Zimmerman intentionally, and knowingly, lied to the court. And, lying to the court about matters that clearly would affect and influence a judge's decision is not minor at all--that's why perjury at an official proceeding is a felony and not a misdemeanor. And, quite appropriately, Shellie Zimmerman has been charged with perjury as a third degree felony, and that is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $5,000 fine.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 12:25 pm
Quote:
Zimmerman judge: Prosecutor must release Zimmerman's statements to cops
By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel
June 13, 2012

Within the next two weeks, the public will know exactly what George Zimmerman, in his own words, told authorities about the night he shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Judge Kenneth Lester on Tuesday issued an order granting, in part, a motion filed by several media companies -- including the Orlando Sentinel -- seeking to have evidence in the case released that had previously been withheld from the public.

Prosecutors argued that Zimmerman's statements to law enforcement should remain sealed, under an exemption in Florida's public records law that bars the release of confessions. Zimmerman admits to shooting the Miami Gardens teen but says he did so in self-defense.

After reviewing Zimmerman's statements, Lester concluded that they are not confessions.

Zimmerman "does not acknowledge guilt of the essential elements of the crime. The only element conceded by the defendant is that he shot and killed the victim, but he does not concede any other elements of second-degree murder."

Lester ordered the statements released within 15 days.

The judge did not, however, grant other requests of the media -- chief among them, the names of unidentified civilian witnesses in the case. Lester wrote that identifying them would subject them to intense scrutiny and possible intimidation and present a "serious and imminent threat" to a fair trial.

"The innocent witnesses who have performed their civic or moral duty by reporting what they observed to law enforcement should not have their lives turned upside-down for having done so," he wrote.

Lester acknowledged that, in the past, that information has been public, even in high profile cases. But, Lester wrote, "the world has changed."

"Any person who has logged onto a news website in the last three months has at the least seen a headline relating to this case," he wrote, adding that stories "have routinely been disseminated presenting opinion and rumors as fact."

Among Lester's other rulings: "Tests" performed on Zimmerman, likely referring to a voice-stress test performed by police, the rough equivalent of a lie-detector test, can be made public, but most of Zimmerman's phone records will not be.

Thousands of emails sent to police about the case will be released but not photos depicting Trayvon's body.

The next hearing in the case is June 29, a bond hearing. Zimmerman faces a second-degree murder charge in the Feb. 26 shooting in Sanford.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-13/news/os-george-zimmerman-records-20120613_1_law-enforcement-high-profile-cases-second-degree-murder
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 12:53 pm
@firefly,
I started to say that it will be difficult to find a jury in Seminole County, but then I remembered it was Florida, where it's possible to find 12 people in Seminole County who have never heard of Seminole County.

Joe(Wher'bouts ?)Nation
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.09 seconds on 11/18/2024 at 06:25:24