Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

@firefly,

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Was he in danger of imminent death or was there a basis for such a reasonable belief

I predict that a jury of his peers will conclude that Martin likely saw the gun as alleged by Zimmerman , and that Zimmerman had reason to believe that Martin would use it against him.

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We do not know exactly why Zimmerman claims he had to use deadly force

The is a garden variety Firefly lie.

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@hawkeye10,

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The last sentence is totally disconnected from the first two.

No, it isn't, Hawk.

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This is an example of extremely poor argument skills,

This is an example of extremely poor reading skills which explains your sometimes extremely poor arguing skills.

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@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye am I the only one wishing for a magic wand that would allow placing the spin queen in Zimmerman place that night and see if she would had just allow Trayvon to had pound away at her or if she would had shot the not so little SOB herself.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Hawkeye am I the only one wishing for a magic wand that would allow placing the spin queen in Zimmerman place that night and see if she would had just allow Trayvon to had pound away at her or if she would had shot the not so little SOB herself.

I dont know that Martin attacked Zimmerman, I only know that I think it likely that he did, and there is no evidence of which I am aware which proves that Zimmerman is lying about the attack and his fear for his well being. This being the case and given Florida law Zimmerman is not legally liable.

Also, I am alarmed at the traction which has been gained by the argument that Zimmerman could have have avoided the altercation by not pursuing. This is true, but is no more interesting than is saying that Martin could have avoided the altercation by not choosing that particular time to run to the 7-11. Both men were with-in there rights to be nose to nose arguing over Martins purpose for being in that place.

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@hawkeye10,

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I predict that a jury of his peers will conclude that Martin likely saw the gun as alleged by Zimmerman , and that Zimmerman had reason to believe that Martin would use it against him.

Zimmerman: I had this gun in my hand, pointing at the guy's chest. I saw him looking at this gun that I had brandished with not an ounce of forethought or an iota of common sense when all of a sudden I figured that he was gonna grab it and use it against me, so I shot him.

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@BillRM,

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Hawkeye am I the only one wishing for a magic wand that would allow placing the spin queen in Zimmerman place that night and see if she would had just allow Trayvon to had pound away at her or if she would had shot the not so little SOB herself.

Having considerably better judgment, and impulse control, than either you or Zimmerman, after calling 911, I would have remained in my locked car and simply waited for the police to arrive.

Using one's brain is far better than using a gun. I'm smart enough to have avoided the totally needless confrontation altogether.

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@firefly,

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/576291_403700206317663_758589570_n.jpg

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@hawkeye10,

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Also, I am alarmed at the traction which has been gained by the argument that Zimmerman could have have avoided the altercation by not pursuing. This is true, but is no more interesting than is saying that Martin could have avoided the altercation by not choosing that particular time to run to the 7-11. Both men were with-in there rights to be nose to nose arguing over Martins purpose for being in that place.

Weren't you, very recently, chastising someone for mounting an inane, ridiculous, completely nonsensical argument, Hawk?

US citizens are "within their rights" to walk around the streets stalking others?

[My apologies to Beth for [need a new word to describe this process] "preempting" an incredibly salient, pertinent, right on point posting.

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@hawkeye10,

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there is no evidence of which I am aware which proves that Zimmerman is lying about the attack and his fear for his well being

According to the state, the evidence is in the inconsistent, conflicting, self-incriminating, and, less than credible, statements he made to the police after the shooting. Those statements are part of the state's case against him.

And those statements, in their entirety, have not yet been released to the public, and the judge will rule, in about a week, whether they should be released. I don't think the defense wants them released yet either. Both sides would prefer to see the case tried in court and not in the media.

But, Zimmerman's version of events was a main reason the lead investigator recommended to the state attorney that Zimmerman be arrested and charged with manslaughter--he did not find Zimmerman's story credible.

You'll just have to wait for that evidence to be released, or revealed in court, to find out what it contains .

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@firefly,

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According to the state, the evidence is in the inconsistent, conflicting, self-incriminating, and, less than credible

And yet from all appearances Zimmerman is the only one who can speak to what happened. Zimmerman being confused or Zimmerman acting like he his spinning a yarn about self defense is not enough to convict him of a crime by Florida law, the state needs to prove that it was not. I highly doubt that they can.

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But, Zimmerman's version of events was a main reason the lead investigator recommended to the state attorney that Zimmerman be arrested and charged with manslaughter--he did not find Zimmerman's story credible

It seems that the state is claiming ignorance of the burden of proof clearly required by its own laws. Thus, this arrests is clearly politically motivated rather than by the pursuit of justice.

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@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye once more there was not a mark on Trayvon other then the gun shot and somehow I question if Zimmerman had been the attacker to start with that would had been the case to say the least.

As far as saying if he had not been following Trayvon the conflict would not had occur given that it is perfectly legal to follow someone on the public streets such a claim is similar to stating that if a person had not decided to wear a rolex watch he would not had been rob. True but beside the point as you had already stated.

We all know even the spin queen in her heart of heart know this is a political prosecution.

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@hawkeye10,

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And yet from all appearances Zimmerman is the only one who can speak to what happened.

No, there are other witnesses, including the girl that Martin was talking to on the phone while Zimmerman was observing and following him. He complained to her about the "creepy and crazy" guy who was following him, and she was frightened for him and told him to run back to his father's residence. And the last thing she heard Martin say was, "get off me, get off me," suggesting that Zimmerman became physical first, possibly by grabbing Martin, which would have allowed Martin to respond with legally justifiable defensive actions, such as punching Zimmerman.
There were also other witnesses who heard or saw the altercation.

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It seems that the state is claiming ignorance of the burden of proof clearly required by its own laws. Thus, this arrests is clearly politically motivated rather than by the pursuit of justice.

You aren't following this case closely, or even correctly understanding what I posted. The lead investigator's recommendation that Zimmerman be arrested and charged with manslaughter was made right after the shooting--it had nothing to do political motivations or public pressure. He just didn't find Zimmerman's version of events credible. And, the police reports of the shooting, classified it as a "homicide--neglig. manslaughter--unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act". Note the words. "unnecessary killing".

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It seems that the state is claiming ignorance of the burden of proof clearly required by its own laws

The state isn't claiming ignorance of anything.

As usual, you just don't understand the law, or the legal process in this case. In a self defense claim in Florida, there is a pre-trial immunity hearing--and, at that hearing, the burden of proof is on the defendant to convince the judge that the use of deadly force was a justified act of self defense.

So, it is Zimmerman who will have to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that he was acting with legally justified self defense when he shot and killed Trayvon Martin, if he wants to avoid a trial.

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@BillRM,

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it is perfectly legal to follow someone on the public streets

While it may be legal to follow someone on a public street, the very fact that you are the pursuer, and may have been the one to provoke or instigate violence, by forcing a confrontation, makes the use of a "stand your ground" defense very problematic.

The two people who wrote the "stand your ground law" in Florida have stated that it was not meant to apply to that sort of situation, and they do not feel that law is applicable in Zimmerman's case .

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@firefly,

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it is perfectly legal to follow someone on the public streets

firefly wrote:

While it may be legal to follow someone on a public street, the very fact that you are the pursuer, and may have been the one to provoke or instigate violence, by forcing a confrontation, makes the use of a "stand your ground" defense very problematic.

The two people who wrote the "stand your ground law" in Florida have stated that it was not meant to apply to that sort of situation, and they do not feel that law is applicable in Zimmerman's case .

Well known, ordinary, statutory considerations of self defense
are more than enuf to protect Zimmy in this situation.
He did nothing immoral, illegal, nor fattening !
Zimmy is a fine fellow, admirable in many respects!!!

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

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Zimmy is a fine fellow, admirable in many respects!!!

He surely is as he took his time over years to make his community more secure then it would had been otherwise.

He also make waves when he felt that the police did not act in a proper manner including when they arrested a black homeless man when the homeless man was in fact the victim of an assault.

All in all he seems to be an outstanding citizen.

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@BillRM,

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this is a political prosecution.

The USA! Not possible, Bill.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

there is no evidence of which I am aware which proves that Zimmerman is lying about the attack and his fear for his well being. This being the case and given Florida law Zimmerman is not legally liable.

Since self-defense is an affirmative defense, it not not necessary to prove that he is lying. He must convince a jury that he's telling the truth.

And he hasn't exactly shown himself to be a fount of truth.

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@DrewDad,

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Since self-defense is an affirmative defense, it not not necessary to prove that he is lying. He must convince a jury that he's telling the truth.

That is not how Florida law reads. The Legislature ordered the courts to error on the side of assuming that self defense claims are truthful....the state needs to prove that the claimed self defense was not the motivation for the shooting. This can never be done if the shooting facts remain a mystery, as it is now.

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You know to me Trayvon was a human hair trigger bomb ready to go off and only luck had him attacking someone who was able to defend himself.

There is no sane reason to attacked an adult for annoying you by following you and at no point in my life including at age 17 would that had even enter my mind.

Sooner or later someone else would had annoy Trayvon for whatever reason and he might very well had attack someone not able to mount a defend of any kind.

Perhaps society and Trayvon would had both been lucky and nothing in daily life would had set him off and he would had outgrowth having such an amazing low level where he feel justify in attacking another human but I would not had bet on it.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

You know to me, Trayvon was a human hair trigger bomb ready to go off and only luck
had him attacking someone who was able to defend himself.

There is no sane reason to attack an adult for annoying you by following you
and at no point in my life including at age 17
would that have even entered my mind.

SO STIPULATED.
The decent people are very fortunate
to be rid of an intolerable danger. Thanx, Zimmy!!!

David

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Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

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