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Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 May, 2012 05:51 pm
I mean, the next thing we're going to be hearing/reading is what a great pugilist Trayvon Martin was, and how George Zimmerman robbed us all of watching the next really great light heavyweight champion.

Let me tell you what would have happened in real life if this was a prize fight:

That's right, the boxing commissioner's drug-sniffing dog would have walked out into the ring and bitten Trayvon on the ass, he (Trayvon, not the dog) would have been disqualified, and he'd have lost his license to box in at least one state where the fight was taking place.

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 May, 2012 11:16 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

I was surprised at the murder charge expecting a lesser charge like manslaughter based on the currently public information . This is all speculation here, of course, and only based on what little we currently know about this case, but when all is said and done do you think Zimmerman will stand convicted of murder?


No I don't. In my opinion, manslaughter is far more likely. Aquittal is a real possibility.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 01:11 am
@firefly,
Quote:
The only problem I see with this article is that Zimmerman doesn't have any marks on his hands.
He didn't punch Martin from what we can tell.
So what????

firefly wrote:
The problem I have with that is that it suggests Zimmerman
made no attempt to defend himself beside using deadly force.
Was he REQUIRED TO ??????


firefly wrote:
Why didn't Zimmerman fight back? Why was the use of deadly force necessary?
Because he was in danger from the attack.


firefly wrote:
Just because someone punched him, even knocked him down, does not, in itself,
justify the use of deadly force in my mind.
It 'd be interesting to see how u 'd respond in that circumstance.
Zimmy had no reason to protect the bad guy.


Quote:
If this is the case how can they try to claim that Zimmerman might have started the fight

firefly wrote:
Because Zimmerman pursued Martin, not vice versa,
There is NOTHING legally nor morally rong with doing that.


firefly wrote:
and he might have provoked a defensive response from Martin
who quite reasonably might have feared what Zimmerman was going to do to him.
The entire avoidable episode was initiated by Zimmerman.
Assuming that happened, it did not void
Zimmy's right to self defense.
He had a right to follow Mr. T.
He had a right to apply his freedom of speech to address him.
He did so.




Quote:
We also now know that there were drugs in Trayvon's system.
Seems he might have been smoking some weed sometime before the altercation.
firefly wrote:
According to the medical examiner, he might have smoked weed days before the incident with Zimmerman.
Weed is very unlikely to make someone aggressive. And Martin had no known history of aggressive behaviors.

On the other hand, the police did not test Zimmerman for either drugs or alcohol.
So, we don't know what was in his system.
How is this lack of knowledge SIGNIFICANT??
Was it Zimmy 's job to make sure that we KNOW this ??


firefly wrote:
He was prescribed Adderall--given for ADD/hyperactivity/impulsivity--and that is an amphetamine product--i.e. "speed".
We don't know whether that drug, or other drugs, were in his system when he shot Martin.
R u blaming Zimmy for this lack of knowledge??


firefly wrote:
And Zimmerman was the one with a past history of aggressive behaviors that caused him run-ins with the law, as well as a history of calling the police to complain about black males walking around in the housing complex.
Did he have a right to complain ??



firefly wrote:
And, according to at least two witnesses the police interviewed, he had a history of making racist/ethnic negative remarks, and a confrontational bullying manner. All of that also suggests that Zimmerman might have started, or directly provoked, a fight with Martin.
Are u ashamed for all this use of naked speculation in your language? Pure guesswork?
I 'd be ashamed to write that way, all this "might, might" stuff. Its VERY anti-logical.
Anyone can speculate about anything.
We learn nothing from guesswork.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 01:35 am
@gungasnake,


New York Daily News:

Quote:
Drop George Zimmerman’s murder charge
New evidence suggests Trayvon Martin's killer acted in self-defense
NY Daily News Poll: 72% say killing was in self defense.
1O% remain undecided
.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 01:38 am
@gungasnake,

Quote:
Good, we don't want someone like you in our fair country.
gungasnake wrote:
Again, as long as people like you are running England, it stays on my list of places to avoid. I just can't think of a reason to want to be in a place where people rot in prison for trying to defend themselves in their own homes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)
It USED TO BE a good, decent place tho, Gunga,
many years ago.





David
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 03:49 am
@OmSigDAVID,
A place where someone can't shoot an anarmed man and expect to get away with it. We have different definitions of what is decent.

It would help if you actually looked at things the way they are, instead of how you want them to be.

OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 04:15 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
A place where someone can't shoot an anarmed man and expect to get away with it.
A lot depends on WHAT the unarmed man is DOING when u shoot him,
e.g. strangling or defiling your mom or your child.

I remember a time, not terribly long ago,
when it was the most that I cud do to remain vertical.
FORGET about defending myself without a weapon.

My friend, Donald, remains that way, in that he can hardly walk at all,
without a cane, let alone defend his family from predatory violence.
I asked him about that a few months ago, after seeing his slow walking.
He had been a serious student of the martial arts about maybe 4O years ago.
He admitted that its benefits had expired; he cud not defend
his wife nor his child without a weapon.



izzythepush wrote:
We have different definitions of what is decent.
I 'm sure we DO. I 'm no socialist. I 'm an Individualist libertarian hedonist.



izzythepush wrote:
It would help if you actually looked at things the way they are,
instead of how you want them to be.
I contemplated them as thay WERE, in better times, e.g. b4 the First World War.





David
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 04:20 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You mean before we gave up our empire, at the insistance of you Americans?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 04:27 am
@OmSigDAVID,
It would seems that some feel it is unfair to stopped an unarmed hoodlum from killing you by using a firearm and the fair thing to do would be to allowed the hoodlum to beat y0u to death.

Of course if the unarmed hoodlum was trying to rape a woman instead of killing a man somehow I feel that Firefly and some others on this website would have no problem with the used of a firearm to stop that attack.

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 04:47 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
It would seems that some feel it is unfair to stopped an unarmed hoodlum from killing you
by using a firearm and the fair thing to do would be to allowed the hoodlum to beat y0u to death.
Without exaggeration, that is true,
and if u do use a weapon defensively, THEN thay want government to put u thru hell
and for your attorneys to bankrupt u, in legal fees alone, even if u r fully exonerated.

The moral of the story is:
if u do use a weapon defensively,
then your interests will best be served by disposing of the remains
privately n discreetly, e.g. dumping it alongside some well-chosen road, or maybe a dumpster at nite.
Think outside the box; work outside the system.

NOT everyone can successfully do that; e.g., my friend, Don, lives in an apartment bldg.
I can 't see him dragging a dead, bloody thing down in his elevator.



BillRM wrote:
Of course if the unarmed hoodlum was trying to rape a woman instead of killing a man somehow I feel that Firefly
and some others on this website would have no problem with the used of a firearm to stop that attack.
I have no opinion concerning that,
but Firefly HAS given me the impression
that she is not enuf of a good sport to ADMIT when she is rong;
e.g., qua the wisdom of people rendering statements to police.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 04:56 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
You mean before we gave up our empire, at the insistance of you Americans?
I do. Please note that I did not insist that. I did not even hint it.
U guys shud have been man enuf to stand up to us.





David
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 05:22 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I love the spin queen of spin queens stating that because Zimmerman was unable to defend himself short of lethal force and did not placed one little mark on Trayvon as Trayvon was beating the hell out of him he over reacted and lethal force was not call for!!!!!!!!

If he had manage to fight back before using deadly force then he would had been also guilty of over reacting in the Firefly universe.

The only thing that Zimmerman could had done that would had met with Firefly approval would had been to allow Trayvon to beat him to death.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 05:24 am
@OmSigDAVID,
That wasn't me, that was Churchill. I admire Harold Wilson, he did stand up to you and kept us out of Vietnam. Blair should have followed his example.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 05:26 am
@BillRM,
An unarmed 17 year old boy has been killed in cold blood, but that's not enough for you, now you have to insult his memory.

He was not a 'hoodlum,' he was an innocent.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 05:59 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
That wasn't me, that was Churchill.
Not u?? The truth is out. DAMN!
Such deception!

U cud have stood up to us. U still had the guns that u borrowed from us.

It was to your credit that eventually,
u returned most of them to their rightful American owners.
I must admit that I did not send any.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 06:09 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
An unarmed 17 year old boy has been killed in cold blood,
Izzy, in addition to grossly mischaracterizing
the facts, what u suggest is flagrantly implausible:
to decide to assassinate a total stranger AFTER
summoning the police to the scene & knowing that thay will arrive momentarily,
and very possibly WITNESS the final moments of that stranger, as thay approach.
In exchange for WHAT ?????????????????



izzythepush wrote:
but that's not enough for you, now you have to insult his memory.
For attacking the innocent Zimmy,
his memory is eminently worthy of insult.




izzythepush wrote:
He was not a 'hoodlum,' he was an innocent.
U have it turned around BACKWARD, Izzy.
U allege "cold blood". I guess u did not hear Zimmy shrieking
like the proverbial "stuck pig" (not very manly) on that 911 tape.





David
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 06:14 am
Izzy the Push,
thank you for fighting the good fight against the forces of ignorant intolerance and brutish bigotry on this thread. Kudos to you. Hold your dominion.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 06:24 am
@snood,
Thank you. The one point that struck home, maybe not on this thread, was when Joe Nation pointed out having to check if his kids were going to a house that had guns in it. This is something that I never considered before, and I'm glad it's something I don't have to deal with.

Something else I've noticed, is that the Faux News acolytes don't let the fact that they know very little about life in the UK stop them from expressing an opinion. I would not like to live in the UK that they portray as fact, because it's so far from the truth that it has more in common with Narnia than the real world.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 06:31 am
@snood,
Yes sir Snood, if you are not black and a person with a black skin attempted to killed you by beating you to death the correct response is to allowed your murder otherwise you are ignorant and intolerance and a brutish bigotry along with anyone who is of the opinion that you have a right to defend your life with out regard to the skin color of the person attacking you.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2012 06:44 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
You mean before we gave up our empire, at the insistance of you Americans?


This is really getting rich now!!!!

We evil Americans FORCED the brits to abandon the empire which the sun never set on, the peoples of which had asked the limeys to take them over since they knew the brits could govern them better than they could govern themselves i.e. they'd all read Kipling's "White Man's Burdon" and were convinced by it!!!!

I mean, I remember the scenes on television, all those Indians, Pakis, and Chinese people crying and wailing

Quote:
Oh my God, we're all gonna die now, those asshole yanks have just forced our beloved British masters to leave and we're not even gonna be able to make fire!!!!


I mean, I know some of the people on A2K take ignorance pills and stupidity pills, but I didn't know there was such a thing as dream-world pills and even LSD wouldn't suffice for this kind of ****. Where do you get them (the dream-world pills)?

 

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