45
   

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2012 10:59 pm
@firefly,
DAVID wrote:
HOW cud u, or Zimmy,
know whether the next impact 'd have severe, maybe fatal results ????????
firefly wrote:
So, in your trigger-happy mind, any fist fight justifies the use of deadly force--since you don't know
the possible results the next blow might have?
OF COURSE! For what reason, shud anyone put up with being beaten???????
Is it to PROTECT the well being of the BEATER????

firefly wrote:
You and BillRM are convincing me that we need stricter gun control and self-defense laws.
AGREED! Gun control laws shud be 1OO% strict! Yes!!! NO deviation allowed.
"Strict" addresses the degree of deviation that is tolerated from some rule (e.g., arriving at work at 9AM).
The RULE in question is the 2nd Amendment, which disables government from interfering with citizens DEFENSIVELY arming themselves.
Strict adherence thereto, Firefly, is rigid adherence to government being DISABLED from such interference with the freedom of the citizens,
who stand in the shoes of the Creators of government in America. The USSC has accurately found in D.C. v. HELLER 554 US 290 (2008)
that self defense is the core principle of the 2nd Amendment to the Supreme Law of the Land.





David
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2012 11:09 pm
I've mentioned this previously, trying to kill somebody with more firepower than you have has always been a dangerous proposition and libtards aren't going to change that. The anniversary of the battle of the Denmark Strait is actually coming up in about eight days:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h50000/h50741k.jpg
That was HMS Hood, whose captain tried to kill the people on a ship (Bismarck) with significantly more firepower than he had.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2012 11:14 pm
@gungasnake,
were they carrying skittles and iced tea?
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2012 11:16 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
By the way Firefly in your desire to change the self defense laws I assume you are for also for changing the laws in Florida that it is legal to used deadly force to stop a rape if need be?


Interesting story along such lines:

http://www.lastdayswatchman.blogspot.com/2012/05/impunity-for-criminals-and-disarmament.html

Story is about Brazil, where people are not allowed to own firearms, and rape is a way of life...

Quote:

In Brazil, here is what happens, according to several Brazilian newspapers:

Gazeta Digital of April 29, 2012: Man invades a house and rapes a 21 year-old woman, in Cuiabá. The crime happened Sunday morning (29). After the victim’s husband left for work, the robber took advantage to enter in the house. According to the police, he raped the woman and fled taking a cell phone, a notebook and a wallet.
Impacto of January 10, 2012: Attacker invades a residence and rapes a 13 year-old girl.
Repórter MT of December 1, 2011: Gang invades a house, ties husband and rapes his wife: Four armed men tortured the wealthy Ávila family on Wednesday night (30). According to the Civil Police, the criminals, besides robbing the family, raped the lady of the house, during the robbery. A female cousin of the family was able to flee from the group, which had also tried to rape her.
Guia Campina of April 18, 2012: Woman was overtaken by a robber inside of her room, and was raped. The police have not be able to identify the man who invaded a house this Wednesday at dawn, where he attacked and raped a woman and later fled taking a bicycle, money and some objects. The woman told the police that she was sleeping in her bedroom with their three children when she was overtaken by a stranger who attacked her armed with a machete and forced her to have sexual relations with him. Her husband was working in a factory.
MidiaMaxNews of February 28, 2012: Two young women, one 14 and the other 24, were raped by a man who invaded the house where they live about 3:40 on Monday.
90% of all of homicides in Brazil unsolved

In Google, I found countless cases of Brazilian girls and women raped at night by robbers who invaded their houses. When an attacker invades a house at night and finds a man, the robbery may be followed by murder. But when the victim is a woman alone, whose husband is working, rape is inevitable.
And a poor and defenseless woman cannot even utter complain to the criminals, who have total freedom to torture, rape and kill. If the criminal chooses to kill the victim, the police can do very little, before or after the murder. The Brazilian police have been powerless in their efforts to stop more than 50 thousand murders a year — not to mention untold thousands of rapes.
About 90% of the cases of homicides committed in Brazil are never solved and their perpetrators are never found guilty, according to the president of the National Association of the Federal Criminal Experts, Hélio Buchmüller. That is, 90% of murders in Brazil go unpunished.
Who can say that in cases of rape even more go unpunished?
It is obvious that the government-sponsored media and the government itself educate the population to trust only in the police for protection. Thus, if a robber suddenly invades the home of a young woman in the middle of the night, she should kindly ask for his permission to call the police. If the criminal is kind, both may remain seated on a sofa awaiting the police. Certainly, the end will be very happy and no rape will happen!
Maybe the anti-gun government should launch a public campaign to educate criminals to allow their victims to call the police during robberies, rapes and murders. This would greatly help the police and victims.
Sadly, criminals will never pay attention to government anti-gun campaigns, or campaigns demanding that criminals be kind to their victims. They will never give their victims a chance. And the Brazilian police, with their overload of crime cases to solve, could never afford to respond quickly to all emergencies.
So what should a victim do to defend herself?......


The article goes on to describe the different culture in the US and how that impacts the occupational safety of criminals (like Trayvon Martin) in this country...
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 15 May, 2012 11:20 pm
@snood,
That's what the initial reports made the story sound like. As several here have noted, the initial reports were wrong.

Again as I've noted, even assuming such a worst case, the kid could have decked the guy and walked away (rather than attempting to murder him by pounding his head into pavement), and nobody would have died.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 03:45 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Was Martin trying to rape Zimmerman?


So Firefly you would allow Zimmerman to kill Trayvon if stopping a rape was involved either of Zimmerman or someone else but not in the case of Zimmerman stopping his own murder?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 04:11 am
@gungasnake,
The problem with using simplistic methodology to examine a complex subject, is that your answers are just that, simplistic. There are lots of socio-economic factors involved in the prevalence of rape, and to compare a country like Brazil, which is only just becoming industrialised with America is extremely simplistic, even for you. Below is a link to a UN graph on the prevalence of rape worldwide.

If you look at the 2009 figure for rapes per 100,000. you will see that in England and Wales the figure is 24.1 but the United States' figure for the same period is 28.6.

Socio-economically the USA is more like the UK than Brazil. One significant factor is gun control, a thug like Zimmerman waving a gun about in a public place would face a minimum of five years in jail just for that. If he then murdered someone the sentence would be even harsher. The UK is a far safer country than America in terms of rapes and homicides, and I'm grateful that lunatics like Zimmerman are not allowed guns over here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics
gungasnake
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 04:30 am
@izzythepush,
Your own article starts off:

Quote:
Statistics on rape and sexual assault are commonly available in advanced countries and are becoming more common throughout the world. Inconsistent definitions of rape, different rates of reporting, recording, prosecution and conviction for rape create controversial statistical disparities, and lead to accusations that many rape statistics are unreliable or misleading. According to USA Today reporter Kevin Johnson "no other major category of crime – not murder, assault or robbery – has generated a more serious challenge of the credibility of national crime statistics" than rape.[1]

A United Nations statistical report compiled from government sources showed that more than 250,000 cases of male-female rape or attempted rape were recorded by police annually. The reported data covered 65 countries.[2]

In some jurisdictions, male-female rape is the only form of rape counted in the statistics.[3]


Just about any normal person would take that to mean that you'd never have a believable comparison of rape stats between two countries, other than for the sort of anecdotal account I noted in which common obsservation was that just about every female robbery victim gets raped in Brazil. The article goes on thus:

Quote:
This list indicates the number of, and per capita cases of recorded rape. It does not include cases of rape which go unreported, or which are not recorded.[17] Nor does it specify whether recorded means reported, brought to trial, or convicted. Nor does it take the different definition of rape around the world into account.


In the US, some proportion of rape stats involve date rapes and the like which a country like Brazil would almost certainly take no notice of.

Other crime comparisons between the US and UK show funny contrasts e.g. more crimes here but fewer crime victims, meaning that people living in certain neighborhoods keep on being victimized, which gets back to the demoKKKrat party and the grief it engenders in areas occupied by its "voting blocks", and there's probably nothing entirely like that in the UK.

But basically I like my chances in the US much better than I would in the UK for the simple reason of citizens being armed. Being a criminal is a far less secure profession in the US.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 04:44 am
@gungasnake,
I said right off that it was not simple. I feel safer knowing our country isn't awash with firearms. My daughter can go to University knowing some nut job isn't going to turn up with an automatic weapon and start shooting students willy-nilly.

You don't like your chances, you just like having a gun.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 06:05 am
After watching the morning news cast it look as if the case against Zimmermn in both the legal sense and in the court of public opinion sense is collapsing.

In the same manner as the Duke Players rape case and the DSK so call rape case collapsed.

But do not fear Firefly as the news media love to run with the idea of evil white men killing or raping poor black people no matter how little backing in fact there happen to be so there will be more such stories in the future.

Al Sharpton will get to bank some more travel miles in the future.





parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 06:15 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:

Just about any normal person would take that to mean that you'd never have a believable comparison of rape stats between two countries, other than for the sort of anecdotal account I noted

Anecdotes are what a "normal" person would use to compare countries? What a world you live in gunga.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 06:17 am
@parados,
A world where prehistoric Peruvians used to fly about on pterodactyls.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 06:19 am
@gungasnake,
I don't know where you came up with that bullshit image, but it bears absolutely no relationship to the reality of the situation. Hood and Bismarck were more than 18,000 yards apart, not a few hundred yards.

We've been down this road before, but you just love to repeat the same bullshit over and over again, i suppose because you're an idiot incapable of learning from your mistakes. Bismarck did not have greater fire power than Hood. The main battery of Bismarck was eight, 38 cm. (15") naval rifles. The main battery off Hood was eight 15" naval rifles. The reasons for the sinking of the Hood cannot be reduced to your simple-minded claim, just as your image is bullshit because it is a simple-minded, unrealistic portrayal of the engagement. I won't waste my time going over the engagement again, as i have already done.

I guess you like simple-minded explanations because thinking give you a headache
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 07:05 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
I don't know where you came up with that bullshit image, but it bears absolutely no relationship to the reality of the situation. Hood and Bismarck were more than 18,000 yards apart, not a few hundred yards.


I believe the other ship in the picture is Prince of Wales i.e. the other English battleship involved....

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDERdM5H5UlQAWqtC5ar9MC0b5OGkfDnMDIGdPzo9f7xfhSzUw
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 07:07 am
@izzythepush,
I probably should mention that the real question is UK stats before and after the gun ban and not convoluted comparisons between the US and the UK.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 07:12 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
After watching the morning news cast it look as if the case against Zimmermn in both the legal sense and in the court of public opinion sense is collapsing.


Picture being one of those poor fibbies who Eric Holder has assigned to check into charging Zimmerman with a "hate crime(TM)". Krauthammer last night noted that a political hack like Holder belongs in some less dangerous position than Justice, mentioning HUD as a safer place to put somebody like that.

I believe Holder is going down shortly.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 07:21 am
@gungasnake,
I love the idea of FBI agents going around trying to find some indications that a mixed race person is in some way a racist without any reason to think so in the first placed other then he had gotten into a conflict with a black teenager.

In this cae that is going to be kind of a hard case to show given that he had a history of taking the side of a black homeless person against both the local police department and a powerful white person.

Seems that you are going to have to show evidence that y0u are not a racist anytime you are unlucky enough to get into any kind of conflict with a black person.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 07:33 am
@BillRM,
Again the neighborhood in question had been experiencing some sort of a titanic crime wave, brought about by people who, as would be the case of Bork Obunga's son if he had one, all looked sort of like Trayvon Martin.

My advice to those people: Do what the US government does these days:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/catalog/predator_V2(1).jpg


0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 07:46 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

I probably should mention that the real question is UK stats before and after the gun ban and not convoluted comparisons between the US and the UK.


Let's not forget you were the one that started all of this by making a ridiculous comparison between the USA and Brazil. I'm glad you've learnt your lesson. Think next time.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 May, 2012 07:49 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

I probably should mention that the real question is UK stats before and after the gun ban and not convoluted comparisons between the US and the UK.

I think the only question is how out of touch you are with reality.
 

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