Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

you should be careful about arguing that having a persription should remove rights from the citizens

Hawkeye it get crazy as my wife had some minor mental health counseling when in college and the peace corp wished to see those records dating back thirty plus years or so when she was applying to serve with them.

Talk about reasons not to go into any type of counseling or treatment programs if minor counseling sessions dating back thirty years can be an issue.

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@firefly,

Quote:

whether medical or psychiatric ptroblems significantly impair that person's perceptions, or judgment, or impulse control, or ability to otherwise use a gun responsibly?

Firefly so you wish to placed a big red question mark on anyone who had even taken any psychiatric drug?

The people with serous problems is one hell of a small subset of those who had sometime in their lives had taken such drugs.

Bet there are hundreds of thousands of either users or past users of such drugs who are the police, firefighters, pilots and so on in society.

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@BillRM,

So you favor handing out gun permits to those currently undergoing psychiatric/psychological treatment, and who are currently receiving psychiatric medication for poor impulse control, and who have a legal history involving problems with anger management?

Why bother having permits?

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@oralloy,

Quote:

That depends. That guy was decked out in body armor. It would have been a challenging defensive environment.

Body armor or not having fire return on him would had likely knocked him off his game plan and at worst allow more people to get the hell out of the theater.

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@BillRM,

Sure Bill. And if I had been there I would have been able to disarm him without using any weapon at all because I have a foolproof plan in the event of anything like that. In fact, not using a gun would have saved numerous lives.

It's just so easy to make claims that will never be tested.

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@firefly,

Sorry there is no study that I am aware of that had not shown anything but that license CW holders are anything but far far more law abiding then the average citizens and the study I posted deal with another aspect and benefit of having arm citizens in having less mass murders cases.

Once more you are being your dishonest self it would seems.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Firefly so you wish to placed a big red question mark on anyone who had even taken any psychiatric drug?

That is definitely not what I said.

I asked you whether you favored handing out a gun permit to someone even if medical or psychiatric problems significantly impaired that person's perceptions, or judgment, or impulse control, or ability to otherwise use a gun responsibly.

That you so significantly distort my remarks, and their meaning, raises a big red flag about your judgment, and your ability to accurately perceive and comprehend. And you quite regularly exhibit this same type of disability in your posts.

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@parados,

if only Batman had been there...

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@firefly,

All those lists of problems had resulted in no run in with the law Firefly?

Quote:

who have a legal history involving problems with anger management?

What do you mean legal history as criminal records are check in all states I am aware of and also court order mental treatments for that matter.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

What do you mean legal history as criminal records are check in all states I am aware of and also court order mental treatments for that matter.

I'm talking about Zimmerman, who was court-ordered to attend anger management classes, dumb-dumb.

He not only had a run-in with the law, it was a law enforcement officer, who was trying to perform his duties, that Zimmerman assaulted and interferred with.

Again, your inability to keep track of the topic, or to accurately comprehend my remarks, doesn't say much for your ability to function well.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

The constitution also protects my right to feel safe and be happy.

No it doesn't.

parados wrote:

When your rights interfere with my rights, you don't get to decide unilaterally that your rights take precedence.

No need for such a decision. It is automatic.

If you feel unsafe and unhappy due to the fact that someone else chooses to exercise their civil rights, you automatically lose to the guy with the civil rights.

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@firefly,

I never got the full story of Zimmerman, the cop and the bar but I got the impression it was an off duty cop acting as a bouncer that he had the run in with.

Does anyone have any more information on that matter?

footnote there are somewhere around 15 percents of all cops that can not have firearms off duty due to pleading to some domestic violence offense in their past!!!!!

When the law was pass that such people no matter how long ago the matter were in the past could not own firearms the cry went up that a large percent of the total police manpower would be lost and so the ATF rule that if the cops would leaved the firearms at the station and not carry off duty they could still function as police officers.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

It's just so easy to make claims that will never be tested.

Yes it is.

Note that it was started by the Freedom Haters insisting that people shooting in self defense would have been an absolute disaster, and the pro-America side is only coming up with alternate scenarios in order to counter that silly claim.

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@oralloy,

Oh? So life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness aren't rights? Therefore they aren't guaranteed by the Constitution?

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@BillRM,

Quote:

I never got the full story of Zimmerman, the cop and the bar but I got the impression it was an off duty cop acting as a bouncer that he had the run in with.

Does anyone have any more information on that matter?

The information has been posted repeatedly in this thread.

You seem to have significant memory problems, as well as comprehension problems.

The law enforcement officer was on duty, and was performing his duties, when Zimmerman assaulted and interferred with him.

Quote:

In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite

And the fact remains that Zimmerman was arrested and charged for that incident, and he was court-ordered to attend anger management classes as part of an agreement to waive the charges.

Quote:

NBC News

George Zimmerman, the man accused of killing Florida teen Trayvon Martin, had a run-in with police in Orlando in July 2005, court documents show.

The incident occurred when Zimmerman allegedly interfered with an undercover officer attempting to arrest employees of a bar on charges of selling alcohol to minors, NBC News National Investigative Correspondent Michael Isikoff reported.

The court ordered Zimmerman to attend anger management classes
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/30/10946676-years-before-trayvon-martin-case-zimmerman-had-run-in-with-police?lite

In addition...

Quote:

In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite

So, Zimmerman has a past history of run-ins with the law involving his aggressive behaviors.

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@parados,

Quote:

Oh? So life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness aren't rights? Therefore they aren't guaranteed by the Constitution?

Hell no the constitution have nothing to do with those wonderful words they are continue in the Declaration of Independence that predate the constitution and even the article of confederation for that matter.

In any case no such "rights" are in the constitution.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

The constitution also protects my right to feel safe and be happy.

Er... where?

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Oh? So life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness aren't rights? Therefore they aren't guaranteed by the Constitution?

A bit of a difference between a right to be happy, and a right to pursue happiness.

And if "someone being unhappy over other people exercising their civil rights" was justification for doing away with those rights, then I'm unhappy that anyone would ever have a different religious or political viewpoint than my own. So for the sake of my right to happiness, everybody else needs to give up the First Amendment.

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@oralloy,

The issue in this thread is not "the right to bear arms" but rather whether Zimmerman was legally justified in discharging his weapon, and killing Trayvon Martin, given the circumstances of the situation.

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@BillRM,

Perhaps you should read the Constitution a little more closely.

The 9th amendment reads:

Quote:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

The Declaration of Independence states:

Quote:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Clearly Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are Rights. In fact they are rights so basic that they are unalienable according to the founders. The founders also said the Constitution can't be use to deny me those rights. Ergo, your 2nd amendment can NOT deny me unalienable rights.

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Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

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