Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Doesn't matter what he says; it's hearsay; not evidence.

Ditto for just about every other word that has been said about this case over the last months...but we are all talking anyways. This here is discussion, not the proceedings of a court of law.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

As well as Travvon's known disciple problems at school. He was only in town because he was on an extended suspension...

One of the kid's suspensions had been for having jewelry which was clearly not his along with burglary tools in his posession at school:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/school-report-trayvon-martin-found-jewelry-and-burglary-tool

It's not outside the realm of possibility that he tried to kill Zimmerman because he thought Zimmerman might be staking out a house which HE was staking out, i.e. because he viewed Zimmerman as possible competition.

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@gungasnake,

Quote:

It's not outside the realm of possibility that he tried to kill Zimmerman because he thought Zimmerman might be staking out a house which HE was staking out, i.e. because he viewed Zimmerman as possible competition.

I think that what happened is that Travvon snapped after being pushed around one too many times from adults. It was the bullying and constant lack of respect which he felt from adults which lead him to act out against George. It was his horrible luck that George had a weapon and that he was willing to use it. We are of course going to blame George for everything, and not take a second to look at all of the other adults who conditioned Travvon into his fatal error.

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The "burglary tool" Trayvon allegedly had was a screwdriver. I've had a small screwdriver on my key ring for 30 years, and I've never burglarised anything with it.. Good for opening beer bottles when you don't have an opener, tho.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

The "burglary tool" Trayvon allegedly had was a screwdriver. I've had a small screwdriver on my key ring for 30 years, and I've never burglarised anything with it.. Good for opening beer bottles when you don't have an opener, tho.

are you beginning to see why Trayvon was likely PO'ed at adults constantly assuming that he was a bad guy??

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My feeling is that Zimmerman was on the prod, and provoked a confrontation of some sort, to which Trayvon reacted defensively. Of course Zimmerman eliminated the witness.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

My feeling is that Zimmerman was on the prod, and provoked a confrontation of some sort, to which Trayvon reacted defensively. Of course Zimmerman eliminated the witness.

It was his right to confront Trayvon. The kid is dead only because of the way he reacted, he miscalculated. David has a valid point, one best be careful of whom they assault, because you never know who has a gun and is willing to use it. Based upon what we know to date this was a good shot according to the law, there is no way the state can legally get Zimmerman, their only hope now is jury nullification of the law. The problem for the state is that according to Florida law this case will never make it to a jury, according to the law this case must be kicked if the evidence indicates that it is more likely than not that Zimmerman was protecting himself. Based upon the injuries to zimmerman we know this to be true. THe events leading up the the conflict were totally legal, and are irrelevant.

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@parados,

Quote:

Zimmy may do well with litigation for false arrest and false imprisonment
in addition to his books and movie.

parados wrote:

Really David?

Yeah.

parados wrote:

When has anyone charged with a crime EVER been able to sue for false arrest?

when the court dismisses the complaint
at the end of State's case for failure to show a prima facie case
(e.g., leaving out any evidence one of the elements thereof)
or before that time

Of course, I don 't pretend to know what thay do in Florida.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

when the court dismisses the complaint
at the end of State's case for failure to show a prima facie case
(e.g., leaving out any evidence one of the elements thereof)
or before that time

The case against George to this point is in total the allegation "Zimmerman sucks!". That is to say it does not exist.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

If you are a "white" citizen and that term now seems to cover latinos with olive color skin and report a black citizen who you think might be up to no good you are a racist and are a profiler.

If Trayvon had put Zimmerman in intensive care or even kill him it would had been a small item in the local papers.

Only because Zimmerman dare to defense himself and in so doing used deadly force is this a worldwide news story.

If Zimmy had been sufficiently liberal,
he 'd have let Martin beat his head on the cement
as much as he wants to, because of white guilt.

Zimmy is really on trial for failure to feel white guilt.
If Zimmy had been of another race, we 'd never have heard of him.

David

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@hawkeye10,

DAVID wrote:

when the court dismisses the complaint
at the end of State's case for failure to show a prima facie case
(e.g., leaving out any evidence one of the elements thereof)
or before that time

hawkeye10 wrote:

The case against George to this point is in total the allegation "Zimmerman sucks!". That is to say it does not exist.

I hope that he WILL sue for major BIG BUCKS for false arrest & false imprisonment,
Parados to the contrary notwithstanding.

The fact that I have been too lazy to watch my naborhood
for potential burglars (almost never any crime around here, that I 've heard of)
does not mean that I see anything rong with citizens watching
their own naborhoods, or in using their free speech to address
strangers in the area; nor does it mean that I see any moral
nor legal duty to obay telefone operators' advice about anything.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

George is out of jail. No word yet if Florida agreed to let him leave the state per the judges instructions. Hopefully some wealthy NRA member will in a few hours have him as their guest out West on some large well protected property in the Rockies. A private jet would be a nice touch.

Quote:

Zimmerman, wearing a beige jacket and jeans and carrying a large brown bag, walked out of the John E. Polk Correctional Facility at midnight on $150,000 bond.
He ignored shouted questions from the half- dozen reporters waiting outside, where he was met by five cars — a white BMW SUV and four green and white Town Cars belonging to the Sheriff’s Department.

He hopped into the SUV — and all of the cars immediately sped off.
His destination was unknown and there was speculation it might be outside Florida.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/trayvon_shooter_zimmerman_released_cmC9gC0U4OBEMHO8aJHutM#ixzz1sqYdk6xe

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I think Zimmerman was given the opportunity to commit the perfect crime. He either acted in self defense or used the fact that that the only witness is six feet under to get away with murder. No way to say which is which so he walks.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

I think Zimmerman was given the opportunity to commit the perfect crime. He either acted in self defense or used the fact that that the only witness is six feet under to get away with murder. No way to say which is which so he walks.

There was NO reason to arrest him, in the first place.
He did not do anything rong.
He was only arrested to satisfy the hysteria of the blacks and the left.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

You have no way of knowing that he isn't a murderer just as a jury has no way of knowing if he was acting in self defense. Certainly the information that has come out so far suggests he was aggressively pursuing a confrontation but was that enough to arrest him? Don't know. I haven't seen all the evidence (nor am I even in the country to read the press reports). A trial will decide, but given the lack of witnesses, Zimmerman's account will stand uncontested. That great if he was a victim and terrible if he is a murderer.

Just out of curiosity, how come you are not arguing that the person killed should have been armed to protect himself?

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@hawkeye10,

This case seems to be following a sad pattern as in the DSK case where the maid was at first painted as an outstanding member of the community and only later and slowly did we learn of her background as a liar and an associate of drug dealers with a hundred thousands dollars in banks all over the country,

Then the Duke case where the dancer was painted as a single mom and a college student doing dancing to made ends meet. Only later and slowly did we learn about her being a hooker and being at best a very part time student with emotions problems that in fact later let her ti try to kill one boyfriend and killing another boyfriend beside setting fires.

There are hints about Trayvon now just starting to come out such as his problems in getting kicked out of school and now that he had gang tattoos and information on his facebook page that cause his family to delete his account.

On the other hands the Duke players was painted as rich white kids with no respect for others and willing to maintain a wall of silent over a violence rape
and DSK was so crazy about women that he would rape a woman in a hotel room rented in his own name and Zimmerman was painted as a white racist and that painting had some very large holes in it.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

He was only arrested to satisfy the hysteria of the blacks and the left.

Hysteria or some sort of a primordial psychic need for human sacrifices here and there....

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

He was only arrested to satisfy the hysteria of the blacks and the left.

David I am sure you would consider me far left from your viewpoints on most matters and yet I had problems with this story and the calls to had Zimmerman arrested no matter what.

Second the Al Sharptons of this world do not speak for the majority of blacks and some very brave black men did come out early on to refuted that he was a racist.

The problem we seems to be having is the media who love to paint blacks as the underdogs and whites as racists when ever there is a conflict that have whites on one side and blacks on the other no matter what the facts seems to be.

If an innocent kid had been kill going to a 7/11 because some racist gun carrying white had assume that he was a criminal and just shoot him down that would indeed be an outrage and the media love those kinds of stories as they love the story of a black young single mother and college student being rape by racist and rich college students or a hard working maid being rape by the head of the IMF.

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@engineer,

Quote:

trial will decide, but given the lack of witnesses, Zimmerman's account will stand uncontested. That great if he was a victim and terrible if he is a murderer.

No one should have the state come down on them unless there is every indication that a case can be proven to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt and not because of some media driven public outcry to have him arrested.

Second, if Zimmerman was acting in self defense which seem very likely indeed he is the victim here and Trayvon is the dead criminal.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

You have no way of knowing that he isn't a murderer

With all respect, its just NOT plausible
that Zimmy, while driving, is gonna say:
"AHA! There 's a total stranger! I will murder him, for no reason, and for no profit,
but first, before I do, I will call the police
so that thay will come and find me with the murdered corpse and smoking gun,
and (depending on how close thay r now) thay might SEE the actual killing,
when I do it, but if not them, then any number of residents hereof, or guests
who happen to be looking this way can see the killing and testify against me."

I respect your right to think that 's plausible, if u wanna, Engineer.

engineer wrote:

just as a jury has no way of knowing if he was acting in self defense.
Certainly the information that has come out so far suggests he was
aggressively pursuing a confrontation

R u suggesting that Zimmy had NO right to speak to him??
Please explain Y not?????

engineer wrote:

but was that enough to arrest him?

It obviously was NOT, unless u claim
that this was a contract killing,
that he was being stalked for that reason.
If u claim that there is anything immoral or illegal
about following anyone, then please tell us what it IS??

engineer wrote:

Don't know. I haven't seen all the evidence (nor am I even in the country to read the press reports). A trial will decide, but given the lack of witnesses, Zimmerman's account will stand uncontested. That great if he was a victim and terrible if he is a murderer.

The IMPORTANT PRINCIPLE for all American citizens to bear in mind
is that if u fall victim to the predatory violence of man or beast,
u need to defend yourself as energetically as possible
to END the threat as soon as possible,
with NO CONCERN with the well-being of the violent predator,
i.e., your own government that u nourish with your taxes,
will not go into partnership with the evil one
and avenge him upon u, neither civilly, nor criminally
and that u need not stand in terror of accumulating lawyers' fees
(in defense of either civil or criminal litigation) that can wipe out your life savings,
setting u back financially to where u were in high school, just because a predator picked on YOU.

engineer wrote:

Just out of curiosity, how come you are not arguing that the person killed
should have been armed to protect himself?

I think I already did that,
but I'd have to re-read the thread to be sure.

Since u bring it up, I 'll do it now:
All American citizens who have the strength to lift a gun
shud arm themselves in self defense.
It is better to HAVE a gun and not need it
than it is to NEED a gun and not have it; that can be embarrassing.

In some First Amendment cases, the USSC
has negatively commented upon actions of governments
that generate an unConstitutional "chilling effect" upon the citizens' use
of those rights. This anti-chilling effect principle applies with at least equal force to defense of your life and other property.

David

1 Reply

Do you think Zimmerman will be convicted of murder?

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