Is it possible for a person to have no beliefs at all?

@fresco,

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Simplistic claptrap!

Nope...not simplistic claptrap.

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You are avoiding answering the question, because it is not in the interests of your self image to acknowledge that there is a usage continuum from "guess" through "belief" to "knowledge" which is graded in terms of "degree of confidence".

Really.

Fresco...if a person says, "I believe in a GOD"...that person is expressing a guess...and is disguising the fact that it is a guess by calling it a belief.

If a person says, "I believe there are no gods"...that person is expressing a guess...and is disguising the fact that it is a guess by calling it a belief.

You either get that...or don't get it. I cannot help you with that.

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In set theoretic terms, the set we call "guesses" intersects the set we call "beliefs" which intersects the set we call knowledge. No set can be said to completely contain the other, and the boundaries of the intersection are always open to contextual variation involving negotiation of confidence levels.

Like I said...all beliefs are guesses...but not all guesses are beliefs.

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@JLNobody,

I do not think you are exaggerating JL. Facts are what they are, but as soon as we put to of them together it involves something more, something we supply as we perceive and experience.

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@Frank Apisa,

Wake up Frank! All those repetitive vacuous one-liners do for you is to confine you to a old-timer's rocking chair on your front porch ! If you honestly think that the single issue of religious belief is sufficient to counter the continuum I have described you are certainly "past it" !

And even taking that single issue with which you have become fixated, completely fails to that I as an atheist can understand how a believer can say not just that he believes, but that he knows "God". I understand that, because I understand the role of the observer in selectively structuring his reality, perhaps as a result of his conditioning or contextual social allegiances.

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@Frank Apisa,

EDIT TIMED OUT -IGNORE POST ABOVE

Wake up Frank! All those repetitive vacuous one-liners do for you is to confine you to a old-timer's rocking chair on your front porch ! If you honestly think that the single issue of religious belief is sufficient to counter the potential plethora of gradations in the continuum I have described, you are certainly "past it" !

And even taking that single issue with which you have become fixated. Your naivety completely fails to account for the fact that I as an atheist can understand how what I call "a believer" can say not just that he believes, but that he knows "God". Unlike you, I understand the role of the observer in selectively structuring his reality, perhaps as a result of his conditioning or contextual social allegiances. My "thinking man's" atheism is not based on simplistic futile debates about "existence of a deity" - it is about the pernicious social consequences associated with religious belief

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@fresco,

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Wake up Frank!

I am awake, Fresco.

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All those repetitive vacuous one-liners do for you is to confine you to a old-timer's rocking chair on your front porch !

Nope...I'm very active. Gonna be 76 in August...and I still play 18 to 36 holes of golf almost every day. Walk most of the time. Go to New York City and walk Central Park often...do exercises. Am in very decent shape for someone my age.

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If you honestly think that the single issue of religious belief is sufficient to counter the continuum I have described you are certainly "past it" !

Yes, I understand you think very highly of yourself...and of your guesses. Good for you.

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And even taking that single issue with which you have become fixated, completely fails to that I as an atheist can understand how a believer can say not just that he believes, but that he knows "God". I understand that, because I understand the role of the observer in selectively structuring his reality, perhaps as a result of his conditioning or contextual social allegiances.

Wow...lots of words. So little content! But I would give you high marks for perseverance.

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is nothing scared?

http://www.naming-schemes.org/~chardin/images/vmPC5nothing.jpg

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@Frank Apisa,

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I would give you high marks for perseverance

Thanks! Attempted mental resuscitation is certainly tough!

(BTW It seems that I need to explain to you that the "rocking chair" scenario was a metaphor with respect your mental activity. My 82 year old uncle with two replacement hips, and a shoulder operation can emulate your golfing activity, but he wouldn't know epistemology from cardiology. Mind you, I'm not sure that you would !)

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@djjd62,

...thank you for that marvellous cartoon !

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@fresco,

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Thanks! Attempted mental resuscitation is certainly tough!

You shouldn't even be attempting it, Fresco. Go see a professional. Maybe he/she will have more success.

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(BTW It seems that I need to explain to you that the "rocking chair" scenario was a metaphor with respect yourmental activity. My 82 year old uncle with two replacement hips, and a shoulder operation can emulate your golfing activity, but he wouldn't know epistemology from cardiology. Mind you, I'm not sure that you would !)

Good for your 82-year-old uncle. I hope you are as lucky.

In any case, I suspect he may have a more realistic view of the world than you, Fresco. Yours seems to me to be distorted by your ego.

Couple of questions if I may: Is the existence of gods possible…or impossible? If possible…are there gods?

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@Frank Apisa,

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Is the existence of gods possible…or impossible? If possible…are there gods?

Come back to me if and when you've done a bit of reading on ontology. At present your "questions" are equivalent to those of "that wife who wanted to know who was going to pay the wages".( some threads back). i.e. You are entrenched in a form of naive realism which proscribes analysis of the word "existence". I doubt whether you have the motivation , courage or the ability to free yourself from that intellectual backwater.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

i've been a fan of gahan wilsons work for over 40 years, first saw that one in the mid 80's

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@fresco,

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Come back to me if and when you've done a bit of reading on ontology. At present your "questions" are equivalent to those of "that wife who wanted to know who was going to pay the wages".( some threads back). i.e. You are entrenched in a form of naive realism which proscribes analysis of the word "existence". I doubt whether you have the motivation , courage or the ability to free yourself from that intellectual backwater.

No need for all those insults, Fresco. Try not to lose control. Be adult.

The questions remain:

Is the existence of gods possible…or impossible? If possible…are there gods?

To pretend those questions do not make sense is absurd. Answer them or refuse to answer them. Stop trying to pretend there is something wrong with them.

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@Frank Apisa,

BTW that "ego" you seem keen to evoke is a diverse committee with at least one of its members gratified by the response it gets from its occasional "live" philosophy presentations. Other members of the ego committee take positions ranging from embarrassment to criticism, and one even tends to moan that its last presentation will be hard act to follow.

Self observation can be quite fun.

EDIT:
You will only understand the absurdity of your questions by investigating your own ontological assumptions.

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@Frank Apisa,

Hell, I'm as old as Frank and I can outwork anyone twice my age.

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@fresco,

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BTW that "ego" you seem keen to evoke is a diverse committee with at least one of its members gratified by the response it gets from its occasional "live" philosophy presentations. Other members of the ego committee take positions ranging from embarrassment to criticism, and one even tends to moan that its last presentation will be hard act to follow.

Self observation can be quite fun.

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You will only understand the absurdity of your questions by investigating your own ontological assumptions.

Is the existence of gods possible…or impossible?

C'mon, Fresco...it is a reasonable question. Just answer it.

We'll hold the follow-up question for after your answer.

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@JLNobody,

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Hell, I'm as old as Frank and I can outwork anyone twice my age.

Not hard to do, JL. You are 75...and someone twice your age would be 150.

It is easy to outwork a dead person.

But are you sure you can outwork me?

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@Frank Apisa,

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Is the existence of gods possible…or impossible?

That depends entirely on the definition of "gods".

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@Philippos,

When one dies.

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@Cyracuz,

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Is the existence of gods possible…or impossible?

That depends entirely on the definition of "gods".

Not entirely.

It also depends on the definition of "is" "the" "existence" "of" and "possible."

But to get into that nonsense in order to avoid answering the question is laughable. (Not that I mind a laugh, Cyracuz! In fact, I thank you for it.) Laughing

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@Cyracuz,

The key word to investigate is "existence", and whether this is relative or absolute. It tends to resist "definition" but we can take a cue from developments in philosophy which lean towards relativism and reject absolutism on the grounds of functionality and the support of such a move in recent cognitive science. If you extrapolate from this, it supports the non-dualist view that all "things" whether they be "rocks" are "gods" are communicative markers with respect to particular human perceptual states and have no independent ontological status.

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Is it possible for a person to have no beliefs at all?

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