37
   

The politics of hoodie wearing

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 01:39 am
@Ragman,
Quote:

Behave in what way? He wanted to walk to where he was staying with a bag of Skittles after he visited a convenience store? Then he had to defend himself when a wannabe fascist nazi nutjob who challenged him for the offense of 'walking while being black'?


I take it that you do not find Trayvons texts messages that the police found on his phone relevant? You know the ones how he likes to fight and the ones how he was warned by a friend that he should not behave that way.
He must have been really proud of fighting ability as even his 4 or 5 year older brother complemented him on it and how he wanted his younger brother to teach him how to fight. If this was found on his phone do you think it makes Trayvon out to be the nice young man you are proposing him to be?
roger
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 02:32 am
@reasoning logic,
Those messages do not suggest he was such a nice young man. Zimmerman's failure to heed advice from the 911 operator (NOT dispacher, as some have said) indicates he may have been, shall we say a bit overzealous. Neither tells us what happened from the moment of confrontation and onwards.

Personally, I suspect there was a clear point when either could have backed off a bit, chose to escalate the confrontation. That doesn't tell us what happened either.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 03:35 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
The trouble of doing it yourself and answering your own question.

There may be some confusion somewhere. I'm not on the verge of embarking on a search for anything.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 03:36 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
I suggest you go back and look at the testimony considering his call with his friend when Zimmerman came upon him.

Unreliable.


MontereyJack wrote:
You guys keep talking about the unlikelihood of Zimmerman's confronting Tryavon with the police on the way. I suggest you consider the unlikelihood of Trayvon confronting Zimmerman while he was on the phone with his perhaps-girlfriend, who had counseled him to AVOID a confrontation by running away,

I'm not talking about likelihood at all. I'm asking if people have any evidence to back the claims they are making.

(And it is pretty clear that they do not.)


MontereyJack wrote:
counseled him to AVOID a confrontation by running away, which he did.

He did, did he?

Do you have any evidence that he did?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 03:37 am
@roger,
roger wrote:
Zimmerman's failure to heed advice from the 911 operator (NOT dispacher, as some have said)

I don't know the difference between the two terms, but whatever you call the 911 guy, do you have any evidence that Zimmerman failed to heed his advice?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  5  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 03:42 am
oralloy says:

Quote:
MontereyJack wrote:
counseled him to AVOID a confrontation by running away, which he did.
oralloy:He did, did he?

Do you have any evidence that he did?


You mean like when he tells the dispatcher that Trayvon is running away, and that he's following him? Yeah, that evidence. His own words.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 04:07 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
You mean like when he tells the dispatcher that Trayvon is running away, and that he's following him? Yeah, that evidence. His own words.

That would indicate what happened up to the point where the dispatcher told Zimmerman that they did not need him to tail after Trayvon.

It does not indicate what happened after that point. I forget the exact timeline, but I think the fight/shooting happened roughly three minutes later.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 04:25 am
It was much less than three minutes. Zimmerman was far from his car, in the backyards of a residential block. There're no street signs there--he couldn't have been "looking for an address" as he claimed. He sure as hell didn't go back to his car. Trayvon's talking to his friend, and all of a sudden Zimmerman is there and confronts him, Trayvon: "Get off me". What do you think Zimmerman was doing there? Going to the convenience store himself to get his own Arizona Iced Tea? Why else was he in those backyards?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 04:37 am
For all of you who think that Trayvon was a poor innocent child, killed for no good reason, by the gun carrying Zimmerman may I point out that a jury of six women five of who happen to have children hear all the evidence and found that Zimmerman acted in self defense?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 05:58 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
It was much less than three minutes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

7:11:59 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman responds with, "Yes." Dispatcher: "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman: "OK."
7:16:11 — First 911 call from witness about a fight, calls for help heard.[16]
7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]


MontereyJack wrote:
Zimmerman was far from his car, in the backyards of a residential block. There're no street signs there--he couldn't have been "looking for an address" as he claimed.

Sure he could have. He would have had trouble finding one, of course, but that doesn't mean he wasn't trying to look.


MontereyJack wrote:
Trayvon's talking to his friend, and all of a sudden Zimmerman is there and confronts him, Trayvon: "Get off me".

Unreliable witness.


MontereyJack wrote:
What do you think Zimmerman was doing there? Going to the convenience store himself to get his own Arizona Iced Tea? Why else was he in those backyards?

Since you requested speculation, I speculate that that is where he ended his pursuit on the advice of the dispatcher, and what he was doing was trying to find a street sign.
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 06:19 pm
I find this person to be very intellectual even though you will see that some of his research is flawed you may learn something as well.
but who is perfect?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jul, 2013 09:35 pm
@roger,

Quote:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-usa-florida-shooting-omara-idUSBRE96F04R20130716

Kruidbos testified last month that he found embarrassing photos on Martin's phone that included pictures of a clump of jewelry on a bed, underage nude females, marijuana plants and a hand holding a semi-automatic pistol.

O'Mara said he intends to amend his request for sanctions against the prosecutors in light of testimony from the trial, calling prosecutors' failure to turn over data from Martin's phone records for months "an undeniable Brady violation."

Prosecutors handed over raw data from Martin's phone, but O'Mara accused them of withholding additional data that had been extracted by Kruidbos. Corey countered that the judge determined the defense was in possession.

O'Mara has quarreled with the p
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  4  
Reply Tue 16 Jul, 2013 10:24 am
@boomerang,
Quote:
What I've learned from all this is that if I ever want to kill someone all I'll have to do is take them to Florida and start a fight. Then when I shoot them I can say I was just defending myself.


Today I learned that there is a word for this:


Quote:
spadassinicide


n. The act of coaxing someone, usually through insult, into initiating a swordsman's duel, and subsequently killing that person with superior skill so as to commit legal murder.
n. One who performs such an act.




parados
 
  5  
Reply Tue 16 Jul, 2013 10:35 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Since you requested speculation, I speculate that that is where he ended his pursuit on the advice of the dispatcher, and what he was doing was trying to find a street sign.

Except Zimmerman's testimony starts to fall apart if you believe that. He claimed he was walking back to his vehicle when Martin approached him.

What is interesting is when Zimmerman claims he was trying to get away from Martin. Zimmerman's back would have been to his vehicle according to his testimony. Instead of retreating toward his vehicle, Zimmerman's testimony is that in attempting to get away from Martin he went almost 30 feet in the direction that Martin would have been blocking. Why didn't Zimmerman head toward his vehicle if he was trying to get away from Martin? Zimmerman knew police would be arriving at his vehicle.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Jul, 2013 05:03 pm
@boomerang,
Darn Boomer. Ill never learn how to spell that word!
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jul, 2013 05:45 pm
@boomerang,

Quote:
What I've learned from all this is that if I ever want to kill someone all I'll have to do is take them to Florida and start a fight. Then when I shoot them I can say I was just defending myself.
boomerang wrote:

Today I learned that there is a word for this:


Quote:
spadassinicide


n. The act of coaxing someone, usually through insult, into initiating a swordsman's duel, and subsequently killing that person with superior skill so as to commit legal murder.
n. One who performs such an act.

Thanx for that information, boomer.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jul, 2013 05:47 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
Darn Boomer. Ill never learn how to spell that word!
Do it fonetically.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jul, 2013 07:03 pm
@parados,
Quote:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/16/george-zimmerman-juror-book-drops-plan/2520159/

A juror who has been vocal since the acquittal of George Zimmerman said Tuesday night that Trayvon Martin "played a huge role" in his own death.

"When George confronted him, and he could have walked away and gone home," the woman, identified only as juror B-37, said of the 17-year-old victim in an interview on CNN's Anderson Cooper 360°. "He didn't have to do whatever he did and come back and be in a fight."

But she added that she and other jurors nevertheless felt a lot of sympathy for what happened to Trayvon and that she wished she could have given his family "the verdict they wanted."

"I don't want people to think that we didn't think about Trayvon Martin," she said, her voice appearing to crack with emotion. "We did."

She said that the jury deliberations were intense. She said she and others wanted to find something they could convict Zimmerman of, but there was nothing legally that they could do.

"I wanted to find him guilty of not using his senses, but you can't fault anybody," she said of Zimmerman. "You can't charge him with anything because he didn't do anything unlawful."

The woman spoke exclusively to CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360." The interview was partly aired Monday night and continued Tuesday.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:46 pm
@BillRM,
Nice. If I were on trial, I would surely like to have the jury be on a first name basis with me, too.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:26 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Nice. If I were on trial, I would surely like to have the jury be on a first name basis with me, too.


Oh so you would had feel better if she ID Zimmerman as Zimmerman instead of George and how about the fact that she used Trayvon first name not Martin also?

Seems she prefer first names and you are so short of things to try to discredit the jury verdict that you need to focus on her used of both of their first names?

 

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