Why are you a Christian (or Why not) ?

Lab rat wrote:



Yeah, it kind of sucks to be them and you know what they have to do?
Be here now in the best way possible. love, bring love, be loved. bring peace, if not to the world, then to the ones who love them and whom they love, if not for every day, for today. Stand up for truth. Stand up for Justice. Work hard to change the world to the limits of their powers. Be present in the lives of those around them, love them all deeply, be full of wonder, curiosity and joy and when they are gone there will be a memory of them imprinted forever on every human they have touched.
Frankel wrote about the concentration camps and what it was like to be on the desperate edge of life and death and what he asked could be the meaning of such an existence? The answer was to live here and now, to be present and human in face of all inhumanness.
Lab rat wrote:

Fine, how about earning your place in the human race? This is a fragile world. We are corporal shells and can be alive one minute and run down by a turnip truck the next, so don't waste a minute more wondering if your snow white gown is waiting for you in some heaven, people, those you spoke of, with the short lives full of suffering need some other humans to show some humanity here and now.

lab rat, you wrote: "in the knowledge that God himself is not unacquainted with suffering."

Jesus is the part of the Godhead that did experience what it is to be flesh and blood. And it was no picnic for God to have to experience the crucifixion and death of his son.

Joe Nation, I never once said the voice was in my head. :wink:

You said you had thoughts, those are usually in your head.

You said that the thoughts were from somewhere outside of yourself.
That is usually considered a form of dementia.

as much as I prefer to make the case against religion, I must point out that it is exceedingly difficult to describe or understand what goes on in another person's mind. Without neuroscience, I'll give the benefit of the doubt - and take it at face value - what someone describes is what they think it is (whether it is or not) and that is as much information as can be gathered.

Hell no! She wasn't just lying. And you'd be doing her a disservice if you convinced her she was wrong. Believing "God works in mysterious ways" and what not is a privilege I envy. I would never try to take it from someone I cared about. If she's one of these 24 hours a day kooks, then you probably want to move on. But if she takes her religion in moderation, then it is probably a good thing. Just my 2 cents.

I totally agree....if someone needs a God in there life to be happy, no one should take that away.

I'm not here on a2k to argue anyone out of their beliefs, philosophical, spiritual, political, or about ... how to grill vegetables. I now think whole batches of beliefs are downright silly, but that is after years of theological agonizing, and political reading, not to mention recipe reading.

I used to be a Christian, which is to say I was a very religious Catholic for the early part of my life. I don't believe in a god or gods now. Why not? What do you mean why not? disbelief is its own description.

I like the internet and a2k in particular in that - you have some people yammering at you for being incorrect, even in the logic within which you believe, some saying you are full of hogwash, some saying yeah, but ... all of it helps you hone your defense, frankly, of what you are thinking this minute. Sometimes this will gird your loins for philosophic battle and sometimes it will tweak a possible agreement a long time later. Or make you surer of what you just plain believe, or don't, or don't know about one way or the other.

One of the things that bothers me about christians is their obcession with 'saving' everyone. And their disbelief that anyone could not believe the way they do.

I had an older woman I was semi-close to. She bowled in the bowling alley I worked at. Her son delivered our newspaper. When we found out how close to each other we lived, we started talking more. I should say before I go on she was like a second mom to me, not a love interest. So anyways, for a while there we talked a lot, and one year I even bowled on the same team as her. She was very religious, and while she didn't try to convert me she did drop hints as to why I should/would come back to the faith.

Fast forward about three years. Different state, different time. I have sunk farther and farther into my anti-christian feelings. One of the councilors at the school I was attending had the audacity to tell me that as soon as I hit the smallest bit of trouble, I would go running back to god.
(let you in on a little secret. I've had several spots of trouble, and the last thing I thought about was 'running back to god.')

Now, however, I'm not anti-christian. Oh, I still think it's wrong, I still thing it's not the way to go. however, I realize it's wrong for me. I realize it's not the way for me to go. I have learned that other people are not going to see things the way I do, and that other people are going to come to different conclusions when presented with the same data I have been presented with. And that's just fine for me.

This must be obviously just country/continent related.
Here, in Europe, you want find many Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant, Anglican etc christians trying to save anyone.

Walter- In the US, most Christians do not go around proselytizing. There are a certain group though, usually "born agains", or evangelicals, who will relate just about ANYTHING to their religion, and use any excuse to attempt to convert a non-believer.

My husband went to an ophthalmologist a few years ago. The entire medical group was well known as "born agains", but did have a fine reputation, so we gave it a shot. Here my husband sits, with his eyes dilated, being peered at by a doctor. All the while the doctor went on and on about his religion.

I was very angry about that. I thought that the man's behavior was a gross breach of professionality. In a way, I did believe that there was something abusive about what happened. My husband was in a vulnerable position, (eyes dilated and all), with the doctor having the control over the situation. I thought that the entire scenario was totally inappropriate.

Needless to say, we never went there again!

I hope you also complained about them to some regulatory organisation.

Wilso- No I did not. I was really taken aback at the time, and just wanted to get the hell out of there. If something like that ever happened again, I certainly would!

Joe Nation

If you ever start a church, I think I'd like to join it.

I once dated a devotee of the Russian Orthodox Church. Per her request; I attended a couple of church sessions with her and was simply amazed. We had to drive to Miami to get to the church that reminded her of home. It was small and rather cheap looking on the outside (which struck me as one that might actually not be in it for the money).
The rules on the door read:
Chairs are for the infirm. (If you are capable; you stand through the entire 3 hours of prayers).
Woman must wear skirts and scarves. (I saw them hand out extras to Women who showed up in inappropriate attire).
They touch the opposite shoulder first when making the sign of the cross and finish by bending over and touching the floor. (Imagine senior citizens doing calisthenics for 3 hours straight!)
It was impossible to not be moved by the sober air of seriousness once inside. There were pews around the perimeter on 3 sides but they were only used by a couple people who were incapable of standing (the whole time). You start out by buying Bee's wax candles when you arrive (the only request for funds according to my friend). All around the church are beautiful Icons of various Saints and as you pray; you wander around to the Saints and light candles for your loved ones. The entire sermon was in Russian, but the Priest noticed me and during times when others were singing he came over and explained what was going on. His kind, gentle nature was undeniable. With his long beard and robes he looked like a living Icon. I remember thinking if there was a God; He would work through this man. Each time I went; I left with an increased feeling of peace, harmony and community… and I don't even speak Russian. I can only imagine the wonderful sense of fulfillment felt by the members of this church.
It had troubled my friend greatly that I was a non-believer, so she asked the priest for guidance. He explained that I may not understand everything yet and perhaps I never will. But, it is OK. Perhaps it is through her love and prayer that I will be saved. She continued to struggle with this dilemma for months until one day she said to me the kindest words I have ever heard. "Bill" (which she pronounced BEEL), I will never understand how you could not believe… but I think you are more Christian than most Christians.
I don't think I was "saved" by this encounter with religion… but I believe I am a better man for the experience.

That's awesome.

Greyfan: I think you are already in it.


Joe

The Church of Joe Nation.

(shaking head)....That's a scary thought! I will definitely have to pray about that.

No, NO NO no, It will not, never, ever be the Church of Joe Nation. Who do you think I am ?? Oral Roberts? Bob Jones? Both of whom ought to be heading Jesus Christ Universities instead of ones named after themselves.

They ran a local church ceremony over a NBA basketball game.....Nearly the whole first quarter I missed....Stupid God

Okay, but then...what IS the name of your church?

(holding breath in anticipation)

And please tell me the men don't have to wear skirts.

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