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The nature of time

 
 
Reply Fri 9 Mar, 2012 02:15 pm
In another thread the Math of Infinity digressed into a discussion about the nature of time and its dependence upon perception

http://able2know.org/topic/185652-1

The sense of time is surely dependent largely upon the size of the observer. For instance where we see the fruit fly buzz in flight, he senses the slow flapping of his wings as we perceive those of a a flamingo and feels the descent of your swatter as the slow collapse of a gigantic redwood

Doubtless if God senses it She does so in a sort of relative way, one nanosecond occupying however long is necessary to think about it and likewise the passage of seventy sepoctillion years factorial. But the conclusion of Geo and myself is that its flow is pretty much independent of the perception
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Jerry954878
 
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Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2012 12:16 am
@dalehileman,
Time is time, it flows in milliseconds that add up to years and so forth. Perception is a large key, a school day is by far longer than 7.3 hours on the computer, but time is still time. I agree fully with your point, so long as it is clear that your own perception doesn't change the flow, and believe me some people I know...
dalehileman
 
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Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2012 09:14 am
@Jerry954878,
Of course Jerry out perception doesn’t change anything as implied by other participants in the above link
dalehileman
 
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Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2012 01:25 pm
@dalehileman,
that’s “our” perception
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
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Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2012 04:45 pm
This overlaps with the thread on the (subjective vs. objective) nature of "reality." Do you believe in the reality of time as something independent of human perception and our artificial units of measurement? Personally, I see only change. The tempo of its occurrence depends greatly on my mood. I can meditate for a half hour, and when it ends it seems to have happened in an almost timeless instant. I don't deny time (everything doesn't seem to happen at once), I only question its nature.
dalehileman
 
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Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2012 07:41 pm
@JLNobody,
Quote:
Do you believe in the reality of time as something independent of human perception and our artificial units of measurement?
Most assuredly JL

Geo help me out here, there’s an apparent semantic impasse
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north
 
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Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 05:37 pm

the nature of time is based on the movement of things , and the measurement of this movement

if the Universe was stilled , is there time ?

JLNobody
 
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Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 06:40 pm
@north,
Interesting question. Wink
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dalehileman
 
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Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 07:04 pm
@north,
Quote:
if the Universe was stilled , is there time ?
Presumably if expansion reverses and collapse commences, at the end when its size is zero and its mass infinite, time will have stopped
JLNobody
 
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Reply Sun 11 Mar, 2012 11:05 pm
@dalehileman,
Yes. If the expansionists are wrong and the cosmos will eventually "collape" into the nothingness from wence it came, time--which like space began with the Big Bang--will stop. But this is only thought, little different from fantasy.
dalehileman
 
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Reply Mon 12 Mar, 2012 08:55 am
@JLNobody,
Quote:
little different from fantasy.
But I understand it’s taken pretty seriously in some scientific quarters
dalehileman
 
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Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2012 03:21 pm
@dalehileman,
http://www.ghanavillage.com/showthread.php/6272-Can-time-exist-without-consciousness
north
 
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Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2012 03:34 pm
@dalehileman,
Quote:
if the Universe was stilled , is there time ?
Quote:
Presumably if expansion reverses and collapse commences, at the end when its size is zero and its mass infinite, time will have stopped
you don't understand , I mean NOW if the Universe is stilled
dalehileman
 
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Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2012 05:08 pm
@north,
Quote:
you don't understand , I mean NOW if the Universe is stilled
I’d suppose that whatever stilled it also stopped time but you’ve got me there. Geo where are you
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2012 06:11 pm
@dalehileman,

Would you ever ask if computers exist? Or televisions and cars? I'm guessing that unless you want to get philosophical about it, you wouldn't. Of course these things all exist and we know everything about them; the invention, the history and so on...

My admittedly ignorant understanding of it is that, despite all the wonderment, time only exists because we invented it... kinda like computers
JLNobody
 
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Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2012 11:04 pm
I can't stretch my imagination far enough to conceive a stilling of time*. It seems to me that one of reality most basic qualities is its processual nature. There are no static things, only processes. We live in a Heraclitian universe, in which change, motion or time is fundamental.
* that does mean it can't happen, only that I cannot conceive of it, i.e., a motionless reality.
dalehileman
 
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Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2012 10:10 am
@thack45,
Quote:
My admittedly ignorant understanding of it is that, despite all the wonderment, time only exists because we invented it
I’d strongly disagree. time has all sorts of aspects we couldn't have invented such as its relativity, slowing of clocks, etc at specific rates
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2012 10:15 am
@JLNobody,
Quote:
I can't stretch my imagination far enough to conceive a stilling of time*…….that does mean it can't happen, only that I cannot conceive of it, i.e., a motionless reality.
Agreed JL. As to its stopping with the stilling of motion: Suppose everything had stopped except one small particle, which nonetheless is slowing down: At what point in its slowing would we say time had stopped

The impossibility of stilling notwithstanding, time would continue, I’m sure
Fido
 
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Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2012 10:21 am
@Jerry954878,
Jerry954878 wrote:

Time is time, it flows in milliseconds that add up to years and so forth. Perception is a large key, a school day is by far longer than 7.3 hours on the computer, but time is still time. I agree fully with your point, so long as it is clear that your own perception doesn't change the flow, and believe me some people I know...
Time is life, so be very warry of anyone who wants to trade your life for pennies...
dalehileman
 
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Reply Wed 14 Mar, 2012 11:02 am
@Fido,
Quote:
Time is life, so be very warry of anyone who wants to trade your life for pennies...
Well put Fido

Incidentally yes it’s a typo but your observation holds also for anyone with the warry reaction
 

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