The nature of time

@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

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Now ?...now some of you sleep on that if u can !
Fil you seem to be emphasizing the subjective aspects of time. True the perception of its rate depends upon to brain size as I’ve speculated but the substantial nature of Einsteinian relativity—moving clock running slower, time-at-a-distance, etc very strongly endorses its objectivity

Relativity endorses objectivity... I think it much better supports the idea of a variable fluidity... We make sense of the movment of objects in space with time, and space and time are two dynamic factors of reality... Ultimately, you can only relate one to the other as time is space, and space is time... Of objects, to which science actually applies, physics tells us all matter is in the process of reformulation as something else, just as the heavy metals we have were made in the stars by fusion... And as we speak, all elements are becoming something other under the forces they encounter, and only remain what they are if no energy is applied to them... Everything is radio active with extreme half lives... It is upon half lives of elements that atomic clocks are built, and they act on a very reliable probability... Now; you tell me... Is the radio active decay measuring time, or is time measuring it, or both together...

You should consider that in asking for the nature of time you are talking about the time of nature, essentially, your own time and life beyond which nothing has meaning... Now; you can take one element of abstraction, that of number, and apply it to the moral form of time as life, but you are trying to abstract a quasi form with a physical form, that is- a form made to represent physical reality... This means you are abstracting an abstraction and you are confusing its meaning more than you are squeezing meaning out of it... Don't waste your time... It is all you have....

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@Cyracuz,

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Perception is relevant when we speak of time.

Of course it is from a subjective standpoint but its flow is not conditioned by our perceptions

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Ultimately, you can only relate one to the other as time is space, and space is time...

Forgive me Fido but here’s where the apprehension of yhour Average Clod (me) trails off

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Now; you tell me... Is the radio active decay measuring time, or is time measuring it, or both together...

Sorry , forgive this Average Clod but that q seems a sort of unfathomable semantic conundrum

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@Fido,

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... Don't waste your time... It is all you have....

But it’s such fun wasting it in this manner though it does somewhat curtail my yardwork and believe it or not strains relations with my BH who—subconsciously of course—resents my participation in this sort of thing, she’s jealous

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

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... Don't waste your time... It is all you have....
But it’s such fun wasting it in this manner though it does somewhat curtail my yardwork and believe it or not strains relations with my BH who—subconsciously of course—resents my participation in this sort of thing, she’s jealous

I don't know what BH means, but my wife gives my emotions plenty of exercise, and the rest of me plenty to think about... You just cannot meet the sort of people who haunt this place on the street, and if you did you might not want them in your house...It is like having a no commitment relationship with the better part of humanity with nothing much real to fight over... Morals being the main character of humanity when they have any, that is my concern... It is freedom to be able to spend your life as you see fit, and it is terrible how cheap we sell it, and how little we have left to give to those we love...

I will not wish my life away just because some asshole who thinks it is his job, is trying to make my life miserable... Every choice is a moral choice, even immoral choices, and those people feeding off others, trying to have their meaning by demeaning all the rest of us are our common enemy...

I don't mind talking about elusive stuff, like time, because there as much as anywhere we are grasping at a moral form...If our time is so damned cheap that selling the limit of it does not buy us what we need to keep going, then we should all own a pile of our own time, and put it to real good use... Speaking of which, I have a bunch of strawberrys to get in the ground... Bye.

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@dalehileman,

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What is it that moves Time along ? Time ? that would be a circular argument...and then if not...how can infinity´s be conceivable at all...

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I can’t answer that, partly because I don’t know

this the whole point of my giving the scenario of stilling the Universe completely , with no exceptions

is to understand that time is based on movement , don't you see that you come completely lost as to how then time can continue

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You seem to be asking, “If Time moving Time is not a circular argument how can we conceive of an infinity." And I suppose that’s a perfectly good question which we might explore some time with a new OP. I’ve thought about it a great deal and concluded that from an intuitional standpoint infinity and forever are both impossible, per

http://www.ghanavillage.com/showthread.php/13602-The-mathematics-of-infinity

my point above is proved

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@north,

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is to understand that time is based on movement , don't you see that you come completely lost as to how then time can continue

I can’t conclusively refute you North, my position is purely intuitional, but the instant that last electron in that last atom to come to rest finally comes to a halt, then does time stop throughout the entire Universe

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

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is to understand that time is based on movement , don't you see that you come completely lost as to how then time can continue
I can’t conclusively refute you North, my position is purely intuitional, but the instant that last electron in that last atom to come to rest finally comes to a halt, then does time stop throughout the entire Universe ?

unequivocally , yes

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@north,

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unequivocally , yes

Ok, maybe so I guess, I’m no physicist, it simply jars the intuition to imagine a time threshold traveling outward from that electron at an infinite velocity

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@dalehileman,

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unequivocally , yes

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Ok, maybe so I guess, I’m no physicist

neither I'm I

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it simply jars the intuition to imagine a time threshold traveling outward from that electron at an infinite velocity

because you misunderstand time

question , how do you think of time ? curious

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@north,

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question , how do you think of time ? curious

Intuitively

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

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question , how do you think of time ? curious

Intuitively

sure , but define it , intuitively what ?

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@north,

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sure , but define it , intuitively what ?

Intuitively real

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@dalehileman,

dalehileman wrote:

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is to understand that time is based on movement , don't you see that you come completely lost as to how then time can continue
I can’t conclusively refute you North, my position is purely intuitional, but the instant that last electron in that last atom to come to rest finally comes to a halt, then does time stop throughout the entire Universe

when the last human dies time will have no meaning and without meaning, will have no being... clocks tell time but without humanity to listen they stand mute.

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@Fido,

Again you think meaning is here and now...but meaning rather is the result of facts and not the bringer of facts...no matters of fact no meaning to be hold at any time...meaning arises in FACTUAL relations between things/entity´s, or rather entity´s that are also things, objective things...and such that meaning it is not the product of will but rather the result of happening...Happening is whatever is the case to be real...the field of whatever is possible encompasses whatever has happen is happening or will happen, and with it the given relational meaning that any entity ends up experiencing...if meaning today is only real in the realm of the possible meaning tomorrow is phenomenally factual prevented all possible is really possible and thus justifiably realized in the phenomenal world...
...I am well aware that some folks think of the possible as an open ended route to the world, as something that may or may not happen...but given all the time in the world, whatever is the case to come to happen will happen and whatever were to be possible and did n´t happen was n´t possible after all...

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@Fido,

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when the last human dies time will have no meaning

You mean Fido even to apes, crickets, even dogs (forgive pun)

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@dalehileman,

...certainly an average Clod like you can see that you merely are extending the question aim while not really providing any sort of counter there...have you run out of vitamins ? Wink

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@thack45,

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My admittedly ignorant understanding of it is that, despite all the wonderment, time only exists because we invented it... kinda like computers

My equally ignorant understanding insists on its objectivity as demonstrated by relativistic phenomena such as its slowing in a moving environment

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@Fil Albuquerque,

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...certainly an average Clod like you can see that you merely are extending the question

But Phil you didn’t answer it

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@dalehileman,

...relativity says nothing on time alone but rather speaks on space time in functional terms...so far as I can remember it does not even try any sort of philosophical explanation regarding the true nature of time at all...but then again that is perhaps best left for philosophy of science...

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@dalehileman,

I certainly cannot answer into the nature of any phenomena any more that I can answer into the nature of a mirage...that is the explanation on how a mirage works does not explain the nature of mirages and illusions at large...they are what they are independently on the explaining on how they might work...so in that sense I certainly cannot answer...but regarding a more down to earth approach I think I left sufficiently clarified that I am suspicious on time having any real existing property as something on its own right...did you forgot it ? (my notion of beingness as information is atemporal)

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The nature of time

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