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Reality from the view point of theists

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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 09:54 am
@Fido,
Earlier, Fido, you asked me a question:

Quote:
“Jesus H. Christ, Frank... ARE you losing it...”


I thought of that question when I read your comment here:

Quote:
“We can refer to reality all we want, but we cannot conceive of reality in an objective fashion because it is, scientifically, relative...


Who cares about “referring” to it?

If the REALITY is an objective REALITY…whether you can refer to it or not does not change the REALITY.

It doesn’t matter if you can see it; if you can define it; if you can explain it; or if you can put it into words.

It may be ineffable.

And it doesn’t matter how “objective” you get in your subjective considerations of it.


BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS NOT OBJECTIVE.

Whatever is going on here in existence…IS WHAT IS GOING ON.

Whatever that IS…is the REALITY.

No amount of subjective consideration can…or will…change that.

No matter what it is that is happening…it is happening. No matter how it came to be…it came to be that way. The fact that we do not know what is happening or how it came to be happening DOES NOT CHANGE that.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 09:56 am
@Fido,
...I think you n a lot of people ought to read Kant time n again till u get it...
You see the point being that also there´s a difference between describing an anything to exhaustion and recognizing an X exists as reality...while one addresses the problem of knowledge the other a priori recognizes that debating it, is assuming it, whatever is the case to be as REAL...
...as for Pope´s personnel God...if he "met" the mindless Machine he was talking about hopes of Heaven would rather be placed on here n now in everyday life which is where we need them...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 10:00 am
@JLNobody,
No JL...meaning is power to classify real phenomenal relations...if I think my cat is a parrot then it is phenomenally real that I feel so based on a real misunderstanding of what a cat and a parrot are...it is real to me that such misunderstanding is happening...no difference between meaning and any other function in reality...meaning carry´s meaning because meaningfulness works out of how phenomena affect us...if u have any doubts concerning what I said expressed them clearly instead of vaguely suggesting it without any particular direction...it might be the case that I can clarify them for u...there´s hope !
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 03:33 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
..geeee man you come from bad to worse lately a year ago you used to make slightly more sense then today...


Not trying to put your sentence structuring down but you seem to construct sentences similar to the way I do and I can tell you "it is not one of my proud abilities.
Have you reread many of your recent post lately?
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 03:37 pm
@reasoning logic,
English is Fil's second language.

Quote:
Not trying to put your sentence structuring down


So why did you mention it?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 03:45 pm
@izzythepush,
I was just curious if he knew that reading my posts are similar to reading his own.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 04:40 pm
@reasoning logic,
you wish... Laughing
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 04:42 pm
@izzythepush,
it is not...get your facts straight...
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:00 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Sorry, I thought you were Portugeese. I apologise.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:03 pm
@izzythepush,
Indeed I am but English is my 3 language not my 2 unfortunately...French was my second. I only come in close contact with English later on...
I suppose you have a deep understanding of birds judging from your last post are you a ornithologist ?
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:14 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
fresco wrote:


Would you agree that the "reality of the wall" is unlikely to arise in most cases.

Joe wrote
Not at all. The reality of the wall arises in all cases where the wall is perceived.


The word "perceived" does seem to matter. Without perception the wall does not seem to exist.


Quote:
fresco wrote:

And in the cases that it does, its "reality" is always contextual with respect to what significance it has for future action ?

Joe wrote
No. The wall's reality isn't contextual. You're confusing the reality of the wall with our reactions to the wall, just as you confuse the reality of flies with a frog's dining choices.



I wonder what the new born ants may have thought about the vertical wall, "that they were born into. Do you think it could have been normal ground to them and when they first stepped foot onto horizontal ground they thought that they encountered a huge wall that grew vegetation and food for them to eat?
Not that I thinks ants do much thinking but if they did a little thinking they might see a difference but I doubt that they would.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:24 pm
@reasoning logic,
...what does the perception of the word has anything to do with the perception of the wall ? Words of course portray concepts...I suppose you were clumsily trying to refer to them, which in turn may end up referring to a better or worse perception of the wall ...
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:32 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Sorry, typo.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:34 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
.what does the perception of the word has anything to do with the perception of the wall ?

It is 5 O'clock somewhere
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:40 pm
@reasoning logic,
So ? again I suppose you know that´s an objective fact as its an objective fact that in Portugal its far later...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:44 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
So ? again I suppose you know that´s an objective fact as its an objective fact that in Portugal its far later...


I know nothing, I only have understandings which for the most part are only approximations.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:46 pm
@reasoning logic,
Do you realize you just contradicted yourself in the same sentence...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 05:49 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I do not know nothing very well, But I do vaguely know nothing.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 06:00 pm
@reasoning logic,
It will get better as you age... Laughing
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Mar, 2012 06:11 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I am looking forward to it. Good night people.
 

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