Reality from the view point of theists

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

There is an objective REALITY...and that "REALITY" is what actually IS.

I can agree with this statement and I think Fresco would as well.

There could be many micro realities and that may be what reality is but I would like to see a layman's example of micro realities that we all can agree with.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

I can agree with this statement and I think Fresco would as well.

Somehow, I cannot imagine Fresco agreeing with that at all.

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@reasoning logic,

In layman's terms ( Laughing

) an overview of what we call "reality" is that it is a dynamic construction process involving our species specific physiology and socially acquired linguistic categories when they interact with an external world. That external world has no structure discernible beyond our agreed interpretations of our interactions with it.

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@fresco,

Quote:

That external world has no structure discernible beyond our agreed interpretations of our interactions with it.

I am a little lost. Are you saying that we have to agree that things are reality?
The reason I ask is because if we showed 2 artist the same part of the solar system and asked them to both paint as close to what they see, I would think that both paintings would be similar. I would not expect them to be exactly the same but I think that the reality could be demonstrated through their paintings.

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
That external world has no structure discernible beyond our agreed interpretations of our interactions with it.

I am a little lost.

Yes you are, our senses are a filter as much as anything else. We cannot see ulra violet or infra red light for example. If we could, the world would appear different.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

I am a little lost. Are you saying that we have to agree that things are reality?

I'm not sure if you are kidding here, RL...but if you are not, you simply have not been paying attention.

Quote:

The reason I ask is because if we showed 2 artist the same part of the solar system and asked them to both paint as close to what they see, I would think that both paintings would be similar. I would not expect them to be exactly the same but I think that the reality could be demonstrated through their paintings.

What would be the REALITY...the pictures or the part of the solar system as it exists (or as it exists at the time the light left it)?

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@Frank Apisa,

Whenever I have a conversation with RL, I know exactly how Basil Fawlty feels talking to Manuel.

'Please try to understand before one of us dies.'

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@reasoning logic,

Similarity is a function of common physiology...
EDIT.....and culturally transmitted norms.

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@fresco,

Quote:

Similarity is a function of common physiology.

What ever happen to keeping it in layman's terms? Is it possible to make it simpler to where even Izzy could understand?

I sure would like to see an example of more than one reality.

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@reasoning logic,

I do understand, you're the only one having trouble with this.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I'm not sure if you are kidding here, RL...but if you are not, you simply have not been paying attention.

Just because we may disagree about what reality is, that does not change what reality is.

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@reasoning logic,

'Please try to understand before one of us dies.'

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

What would be the REALITY...the pictures or the part of the solar system as it exists (or as it exists at the time the light left it)?

I think that the reality would be the light and darkness as it entered the pupils of their eyes.

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@reasoning logic,

I'm pretty sure Izzy is on board. The layman here is the one who is stuck with the idea of a fixed reality independent of an observer. Since that is the view all of us operate with in most of our daily lives it is unlikely that the majority will be able to take the intellectual step of putting that view on hold.

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@fresco,

Thanks.

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@fresco,

We can take a mentally ill patient and he may see something completely different than me or you, and it may seem as a reality to him, are you claiming just because it is a reality to him it is real and it is true?

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@reasoning logic,

You wanted an example of "more than one reality".
Consider the native culture (Azande I think) which has different words for "water that you cross" and "water that you drink". Their reality is that they are two different substances and culturally must not be mixed.

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@fresco,

Quote:

The layman here is the one who is stuck with the idea of a fixed reality independent of an observer. Since that is the view all of us operate with in most of our daily lives it is unlikely that the majority will be able to take the intellectual step of putting that view on hold.

You just don't get it, Fresco...and are insisting you will not get it.

The "intellectual step" here is one you have to take.

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@fresco,

Quote:

Their reality is that they are two different substances and culturally must not be mixed.

I would say, "that is their belief and a person can believe what ever they want to. do they have a superstition about drinking water that they cross or do they only cross salt water?

All the water that they cross and drink evaporates and comes back as rain drops.

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@reasoning logic,

Quote:

We can take a mentally ill patient and he may see something completely different than me or you, and it may seem as a reality to him, are you claiming just because it is a reality to him it is real and it is true?

Actually, RL...that comes quite close to what he is saying.

Fresco is insisting there is no such thing as an independent, objective reality. Reality, in his belief system, is merely something people agree on.

1 Reply

Reality from the view point of theists

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