Would "Christians" vote for Mitt Romney if they knew Mormons rebaptise other religions' deads?

Questioner wrote:

You claim to belong to Christ, yet your theology on works negates the power of his gift.

What do you mean by this?

Quote:

I can not, unfortunately, be OK with them claiming to be Christians when the tenants and views they embrace are so absolutely counter to what being a Christian actually entails.

What are these tenants and views that are absolutely counter to what being a Christian actually entails?

The bottom line is that Mormons are Christians because they believe that one is saved through Jesus Christ. It doesn't get much simpler than that. That their theology differs from Nicene Christianity is one thing, but to deny their Christianity is quite another.

2 Replies

@InfraBlue,

Questioner,

Do you really feel comfortable judging other people on whether they are Christian or not?

It seems to me that this should be a personal thing between each person and God.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

I feel comfortable in my understanding of what a Christian is. That part's outlined fairly well in the Bible. I DO believe that being saved is between one person and Jesus. The problem I have with Mormonism and some forms of Christianity is that it presents a false view of what being saved entails (according to the Bible), who that salvation comes from, and what our role should be with God.

That false view can lead others that are genuinely seeking what I understand to be the truth, astray. To me that's a very serious offense, and it's one that is obviously aggravating to me.

But yes, each person is responsible for their own choices and the judgement is God's. I have no problem with people living their lives the way they feel like living them. I do feel, however, that it is a disservice to the God I claim to serve to pretend that everyone's right.

I absolutely won't stand up and shout at people for believing what they believe, nor will I insist that they cease to believe it. I do, however, think that I have every right to disagree with what they believe, and to point out the differences between our beliefs including my belief that they are wrong.

1 Reply

@Questioner,

Quote:

I feel comfortable in my understanding of what a Christian is. That part's outlined fairly well in the Bible.

No it is not well outlined in the Bible. The Bible is a Rorschach test. everyone who reads the Bible thinks that it agrees with them. Evangelicals and Mormons are equals in that regard. Even Evangelicals disagree on key parts of salvation and all of them have their favorite Bible verses to back it up.

I don't think you have any more authority on what the Bible says about who is saved or not than anyone else (unless of course you are the Pope).

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

A man was walking along San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge when he saw a woman about to jump off. He ran up to her, trying to dissuade her from committing suicide. He told her simply that God loved her. A tear came to her eye.
He then asked her, “Are you a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, or what?”

“I’m a Christian,” she replied.

He said, “Me, too! Small world! Protestant or Catholic?”

“Protestant.”

“Me, too! What denomination?”

“Baptist.”

“Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?”

“Northern Baptist.”

He remarked, “Well, ME TOO! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

She answered, “Northern Conservative Baptist.”

He said, “Well, that’s amazing! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reformed Baptist?”

“Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist.”

“Remarkable! Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region?”

She told him, “Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region.”

“A miracle!” he cried. “Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?”

She said, “Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.”

He then shouted, “DIE, HERETIC!”, and pushed her over the rail.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Questioner wrote:
You claim to belong to Christ, yet your theology on works negates the power of his gift.

What do you mean by this?

I mean that the LDS church puts a very strong weight on works being a portion of your salvation. My understanding of the Bible points out that the sacrifice was a 'gift', not something that can be earned. And works aren't something you do just because you have to to fill out the check box quota (which the LDS church has), but is a response that your heart demands be made. It's an understanding that serving others is a reflection of service Christ.

Quote:

Quote:
I can not, unfortunately, be OK with them claiming to be Christians when the tenants and views they embrace are so absolutely counter to what being a Christian actually entails.

What are these tenants and views that are absolutely counter to what being a Christian actually entails?

The bottom line is that Mormons are Christians because they believe that one is saved through Jesus Christ. It doesn't get much simpler than that. That their theology differs from Nicene Christianity is one thing, but to deny their Christianity is quite another.

How can I deny their Christianity? You put a lot of store in my words apparently. My belief, and the belief of many Evangelical Christians (and Catholics I believe) is that they aren't. Could be wrong. Happened before, many times.

The biggest issue is in the salvation. They believe that Christ exists. Great. They believe that salvation starts with him. Great. Where we differ massively is in the belief of the Trinity, whereby our belief holds that the Trinity is one being (as stated in the Bible) they believe that it's three seperate beings.

This does numerous and horrific things to our theology and doctrinal teachings. As well as the Bible itself. Christians believe that there is a trinity and it is one being. Christians believe that ALL salvation comes through Christ, not the tiered version of Salvation that the LDS church ascribes to. Christians also believe that Christ is God (trinity mentioned earlier), the LDS church believes that Jesus and Satan were brothers born of heavenly parents.

Most importantly, Christians believe that Christ is who the Bible says he was. The LDS church has several other, newer scriptures that contradict much of what the Bible has laid out.

The Christ they know is not the Christ we know. That is why the claim that they aren't Christians is made. Their books don't jive with what we believe, which is why their claims of being the only 'true' Christians are made. No one's tripping over themselves to argue that point, I notice.

There's strong feelings, obviously, on both sides. I was airing the feelings that many Evangelicals (and Catholics?) share.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

Of course I don't. And no matter how many times you try to push that onto me, I'm still going to say 'You're right, I have no authority to judge people.'

I can absolutely disagree with people, much as you are doing now with me. That is a far cry from judging someone's soul.

For the record: I CAN'T JUDGE SOULS. Period.

I hope I get to heaven and find out that we were all wrong and that they're handing out balloons and beer to everyone that shows up.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

For the record, I am down on all religions, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists. They all have the same problems with reality.

I just don't have a problem with any practice that doesn't directly affect me.

Out of curiosity, why do you even care what I think?

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And just for the record, and then I'm done with this thread . . .I'm not deluding myself here. I am under NO allusion that my belief about anything holds any weight at all.

I'm still fairly new to Christianity myself, having opposed it fairly vehemently on this board many years ago. I was reluctant to bring up my beliefs for awhile because I know how VERY easy it is for people who disagree with me, or think religion is idiotic, to prove their point and pick apart anyone claiming otherwise.

It's incredibly easy because it's so incredibly obtuse and ridiculous. Yet I find myself in it for no reason I can explain.

I brought up my OPINIONS in this thread because JL Fuller made mention of baptisms performed after 75AD and before the establishment of the Mormon church being invalid. (again, no one had a problem with that)

While yes, that goes against what evangelicals believe, it wasn't the totality of "how other Christian denominations view LDS theology." So I pointed out the rest of the reason why evangelicals have umbrage with the LDS theology.

If Fuller can claim that our beliefs have been wrong, our baptisms invalid, surely I can counter that. Which I did.

Sorry to have hijacked the thread to such a degree.

0 Replies

@Questioner,

Questioner,

You can't play Evangelicals and Catholics vs. Mormons.

First of all many Evangelicals don't believe that Catholics are saved. For one Catholics believe that Baptism is necessary for Salvation, an opinion that some Evangelicals believe is salvation by works which (ironically in my opinion) disqualifies them from being saved by faith.

It seems odd that you are lumping Catholics and Evangelicals together and leaving Mormons out. After all Catholics don't pass your own test as outlined in your last post.

It really is a three way brawl in the Body of Christ. Ironically the Bible says we unbelievers will know you are Christians by your love for one another (by that measure you all fail).

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@Questioner,

Quote:

How can I deny their Christianity? You put a lot of store in my words apparently. My belief, and the belief of many Evangelical Christians (and Catholics I believe) is that they aren't. Could be wrong. Happened before, many times.

Well, you did say that they claimed to be Christians when their tenants and views they embrace are so absolutely counter to what being a Christian actually entails.

That your belief and the belief of many Evangelical Christians, and perhaps even Catholics is that Mormons aren't Christian doesn't negate their Christianity. You're making an argumentum ad populum fallacy. The popularity of your belief does not make your belief a fact. Neither you, nor the Evangelical Christians, nor even the Catholics have a stranglehold on what being a Christian entails. It merely makes you intolerant much like the intolerance that drove the Church to persecute those Christians that rejected its tenants.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Questioner,

Do you really feel comfortable judging other people on whether they are Christian or not?

It seems to me that this should be a personal thing between each person and God.

If they would keep it between themselves and God, then all the better; but they do not... It is Christians who give Christianity a bad name, and no one else but them... And they deserve it..

1 Reply

@Fido,

Amen!

BBB Twisted Evil

0 Replies

Obama and his administration just mandated that all Muslim mosques
in the US must now put free BLT and Ham sandwiches on their menus.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Obama and his administration just mandated that all Muslim mosques
in the US must now put free BLT and Ham sandwiches on their menus.

if pressed and starving a Muslim can eat almost anything!

1 Reply

@Fido,

The Pork is also their other white meat.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

The Pork is also their other white meat.

It is the shame of a person to talk of what they do not know...God forbid...

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@BumbleBeeBoogie,

This is a disgusting post from someone who would never post something similar if it called into question the religion of Islam.

What a foul hypocrite you are.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Oh, the irony! Finn calling someone else a hypocrite.

0 Replies

@saab,

Excuse me? So, what you're saying is that Mormons are not Christians? What are they then? Have you ever stopped and think for a minute that maybe just maybe Mormons also have a faith and that faith like any other religion, includes believing in Jesus Christ?

1 Reply

Would "Christians" vote for Mitt Romney if they knew Mormons rebaptise other religions' deads?

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